President Trump 2.0

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It looks more like you're trying to set me up for an infallible riposte!

"A nation" is two nations.

"First nation", if I may take that to mean the USA - I have no doubt that Trump wanted to exercise his power. Chest out.

"Sovereign nation": Hmm - Iran, the Devil's Disciple; murderer of its own people in big numbers; threatened to obliterate Israel.

In short, the Iran regime deserves what it is getting.

That’s a long way of saying yes

Good morning

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

That’s a long way of saying yes

Good morning

Good morning to you too.

I have no problem with Israel, supported by the USA, dealing with Iran militarily.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Good morning to you too.

I have no problem with Israel, supported by the USA, dealing with Iran militarily.

Repeatedly…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Repeatedly…

Where do you stand on this issue (besides regular sniping)?

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Where do you stand on this issue (besides regular sniping)?

I believe that it is a distraction from the Epstein Papers, and invading another country that you have previously said no longer is a threat to you (by previously obliterating its threat capabilities) is wrong.

From today’s WaPo

Trump said that “our objective is to defend the American people by eliminating imminent threats from the Iranian regime.” He cited two such threats: Iran’s nuclear and missile programs. Of course, just last summer Trump claimed to have “totally obliterated” the Iranian nuclear program.

Now he’s insisting it is so far from obliterated that it poses an “imminent” threat. Yet there is no evidence that Iran has restarted enrichment since June, as Secretary of State Marco Rubio has conceded.
And there is no evidence that Iran is actively developing intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of hitting the U.S. The Defense Intelligence Agency warned last year that Iran could produce such a missile by 2035 if it chose to do so. But its missile production facilities and launch sites were severely damaged in June, and, while there is evidence of Iran rebuilding its capacity to manufacture short- and medium-range missiles, the evidence of ICBM development is lacking.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I believe that it is a distraction from the Epstein Papers, and invading another country that you have previously said no longer is a threat to you (by previously obliterating its threat capabilities) is wrong.

From today’s WaPo

You know my position on this: For Israel, it's an opportunity to zap the country that has promised to obliterate it.

Trump is putting his chest out, the big man - and can use the pretext of Iran's nuclear ambitions that would zap Israel and Saudi and whatever else the mullahs wanted to hit.

So, all in all, the current action literally trumps your irritating rhetoric.

And your agreement with what you yourself call a "pretext" makes your position very clear…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And your agreement with what you yourself call a "pretext" makes your position very clear…

Whatever. My position is that if there is an opportunity to off the Iranian regime, which has at its central policy the obliteration of Israel, then that opportunity should be taken.

Trump's personal motivation is incidental.

Happy sniping.

[Hom3r]

I know someone who was on a plane about to take off from Dubai, on Friday.


Flight cancelled and they are stuck.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Itshim

The perverse side of my would like to see the manbaby get a bloody nose,

I would too, trouble is the blood trickling down his nose won't be his own.

The man is a cretin of the highest order, he was warned by the CIA that this wouldn't end with the ayatolahs (sp) death and there was a succession plan in place then did it anyway, whilst negotiating, again, then wonders why they tell him to stick his ceasefire, people should ask what would have happened if he hadn't ripped up the original Iran nuclear deal and has anyone heard a US president be so disrespectful about the countries military dead, "it is what it is" wtf, also donnie has been saying since 2008 that a US president would attack Iran because they were so deeply unpopular, finally something he is right about but guess what, it didn't work as he said as he's still deeply unpopular, the man has one foot in hell and the other on a banana skin and for the world's and America's sake slipping may well be a blessing. All this to distract from a paedo ring he was at the heart of, as someone in the office said earlier, operation epic fury, more like operation epstein fury.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Whatever. My position is that if there is an opportunity to off the Iranian regime, which has at its central policy the obliteration of Israel, then that opportunity should be taken.

Trump's personal motivation is incidental.

Happy sniping.

But if the people who take over (probably the IRGC) are just as bad, what’s the point?

Trump has no post-conflict plan, so he will just blame the Iranian people for not doing what he thinks they should do, and more people (including US personnel and people in the countries Iran is retaliating against) will die.

Trump’s personal motivation is central to this, not incidental…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But if the people who take over (probably the IRGC) are just as bad, what’s the point?

Trump has no post-conflict plan, so he will just blame the Iranian people for not doing what he thinks they should do, and more people (including US personnel and people in the countries Iran is retaliating against) will die.

Trump’s personal motivation is central to this, not incidental…

I'm coming from the position that at least the regime is offed and its nuclear/ballistic missile threat reduced to zero.

As to Trump's motivation, I don't think we are in disagreement. I'm hoping that he sees this through thoroughly.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'm coming from the position that at least the regime is offed and its nuclear/ballistic missile threat reduced to zero.

As to Trump's motivation, I don't think we are in disagreement. I'm hoping that he sees this through thoroughly.

And I’m coming from the position that the regime will continue with the IRGC running things (which will just be more of the same), and the nuclear/ballistic missile threat will be the same as it was after the last "obliteration"…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And I’m coming from the position that the regime will continue with the IRGC running things (which will just be more of the same), and the nuclear/ballistic missile threat will be the same as it was after the last "obliteration"…

And there, we won't disagree. In other words, we'll await the result.

I see divergence in motivation between Israel and the USA. In that sense, Trump may be seen as Netanyahu's useful idiot.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

And there, we won't disagree. In other words, we'll await the result.

I see divergence in motivation between Israel and the USA. In that sense, Trump may be seen as Netanyahu's useful idiot.

Trump is an idiot, driven by a base need not to be defined by his past stupidity. He is therefore vulnerable to manipulation by anyone who can convince him his ends are served by doing what they want. Netanyahu is probably one (anything pro-Israel keeps a whole section of the MAGA base happy). Putin is definitely one. Goodness only knows what the KGB/FSB have got on him. Similarly, anyone with a plan to keep his parts of the Epstein files out of view would also be well placed.