Russia has invaded Ukraine

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Deal or no deal? Will Trump cave again when he speaks to Putin?

Taco cave to Putes? Never!

Putin is not going to agree to anything that makes it look like his plan has failed.

[1andrew1]

Interesting how Trump's peace plan came to be

Trump's peace plan had Russian fingerprints all over it - and now we know why

To learn of US envoy Steve Witkoff and his Russian interactions is to understand the handbrake turn towards Moscow.

The Bloomberg report of Witkoff's recent involvement distills eye-watering detail of his contact with Yuri Ushakov, Vladimir Putin's senior adviser on foreign policy.

In a phone call last month, Witkoff told Ushakov that Zelenskyy was coming to visit the White House, and suggested Putin speak to Trump beforehand.

Witkoff reportedly said: "The president will give me a lot of space and discretion to get to the deal."

Subsequently, Witkoff drafted the controversial peace proposal with his Russian counterparts, and the US pressured Ukraine to accept it.

The report paints an unflattering picture of Trump's envoy doing a good impression of a useful idiot.

Moscow's threat to Ukraine and to the security infrastructure of Western Europe is strengthened on his handshake.

He'll press the flesh in Russia once more - Donald Trump is sending Witkoff back to Moscow for further talks aimed at bridging the Ukraine-Russia impasse.

https://news.sky.com/story/trumps-pe...w-why-13475506

[Mr K]

Apparantly the 'deal' he came back looks to have been directly translated from Russian !
https://newrepublic.com/post/203517/...ssian-language

The U.S. peace plan presented to Ukraine appears to have been translated from Russian.

The syntax of certain phrases are more common in the Russian language, such as the third point of the 28-point plan: “It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and Nato will not expand further.”

They are either corrupt, thick, lazy, being blackmailed
or all of the above....

The best guess is that it was cooked up between Russian representatives and Steve Witkoff, Trump’s envoy, who speaks Russian and thinks he understands Russia (in reality Witless Witkoff is even more likely to be a bona fide Russian intelligence asset than Trump).

That’s what’s giving them just enough plausibility to claim the document is actually an American initiative, despite it obviously having originated in Russian and basically being a re-statement of Russia’s maximalist war aims.

[Sephiroth]

“It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and Nato will not expand further.”

Looks like perfectly good English.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Looks like perfectly goods English.

It’s the phraseology, rather than the words - “It is expected” is not commonly used in English in this context, but it is common in Russian…


In this context, people who use English as their first language would normally say "Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and Nato will not expand further."

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It’s the phraseology, rather than the words - “It is expected” is not commonly used in English in this context, but it is common in Russian…


In this context, people who use English as their first language would normally say "Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and Nato will not expand further."

Ah yes - I should have spotted that. However, in my work, I work with network requirements written by French or German colleagues and the "It is expected .." phraseology is frequently used.. So not typically Russian.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Ah yes - I should have spotted that. However, in my work, I work with network requirements written by French or German colleagues and the "It is expected .." phraseology is frequently used.. So not typically Russian.

None of that means it's not typically Russian.

[Carth]

All I know is that I didn't write it.

Everything else is just a meaningless 'finger pointing' game about something that will end up in the bin anyway.

Words on a bit of paper, just preliminary negotiations, not that these are the first, or last.

If that were true, why are Russian putting so much effort into getting their version out/publicised?

[Carth]

Go ahead, tell me you honestly think that 'peace plan' is going to be accepted.

If it's not, it goes into the bin.

Originally Posted by Carth

Go ahead, tell me you honestly think that 'peace plan' is going to be accepted.

If it's not, it goes into the bin.

Not the original Russian-penned one, no - but the point of it was to get Trump to be peeved at Zelensky, by publicising thing that were unacceptable/going get turned down…

[Carth]

I think you'll find it's called 'negotiating' . . or bartering as us old ones know it.

It works like this:
A) Put an offer on the table wanting much more than you're willing to accept.

B) Discuss terms with the 'opponent' until you get to the stage where both are happy.

C) Shake hands, walk away satisfied with the deal, knowing you got exactly what you wanted, but gave the impression you had to 'give up' some things to get it.

No matter who wrote the first list of demands, it was never going anywhere but the bin.