02-06-2025, 20:43
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#451
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Half in the corporeal, half in the etheral
Posts: 37,181
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
It’s a deal, and it relates to trade.
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A Sea Horse is not a horse that lives in the sea.
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From Jim Cornette:
“Ty, Fy, bye”
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02-06-2025, 20:45
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#452
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
A Sea Horse is not a horse that lives in the sea.
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Very profound… 
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Forumbox.co.uk
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02-06-2025, 21:27
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#453
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,409
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
i can understand a conservative defecting but what has reform got in common with labour values
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Reform are a populist party so left wing on benefits and right-wing on immigration and social values.
Here's what The Telegraph said today.
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02-06-2025, 21:42
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#454
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vox populi vox dei
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Posts: 14,807
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Reform are a populist party so left wing on benefits and right-wing on immigration and social values.
Here's what The Telegraph said today.
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written by mel totally unbiassed stride 
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To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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02-06-2025, 22:42
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#455
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 13,221
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Reform are a populist party so left wing on benefits and right-wing on immigration and social values.
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Hmmm, like most of the country, I wonder why they’re popular?
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The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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02-06-2025, 22:44
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#456
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,409
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
written by mel totally unbiassed stride |
You have a point.
---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
Hmmm, like most of the country, I wonder why they’re popular?
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It's a sweet spot.
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03-06-2025, 11:59
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#457
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 13,221
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
It's a sweet spot.
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Left & Right, don't really exist anymore. Tackle the issues independently and you'll have more success than starting from some ideological entrenchment.
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The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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03-06-2025, 13:38
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#458
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Wisdom & truth
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Yeah - but the term "leftie" has a ring to it that easily makes sense
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Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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03-06-2025, 13:47
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#459
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 68
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Posts: 43,775
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Yeah - but the term "leftie" has a ring to it that easily makes sense
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That "ring" is an echo chamber…
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03-06-2025, 16:46
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#460
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,409
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Yeah - but the term "leftie" has a ring to it that easily makes sense
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As Pierre suggests, times they are a-changing.
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03-06-2025, 16:56
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#461
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Wisdom & truth
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
As Pierre suggests, times they are a-changing.
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I don't think you are the one to pray Pierre in aid! I suspect that what I said about lefties does chime with Pierre. He'll quickly come back to say if I'm wrong.
Lefties will always be lefties; it's the "right" that is somewhat fuzzy. The term is wielded in so many contexts (such as law and order, migration), ending up with the leftie PM calling the rest of us fascist to all intents and purposes.
But the leftie is a known entity. Reform is not in that category and Red Wall voters who support Reform are obviously not lefties.
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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03-06-2025, 17:59
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#462
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 68
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Posts: 43,775
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Got to love self-affirming circular logic…
Sephiroth - "anything I say is "leftie" is "leftie", is a "known entity", so no more definition is required, whilst "right" is somewhat fuzzy, as that gives me wiggle room if I’m called out on anything, and I can always use the old "look, they don’t agree with my definition, so they must be calling us fascists to all intents and purposes (even though they haven’t, the old ad-hominem dog-whistle is always useful…)
Some snippets from YouGov surveys when we last discussed "leftie" vs "rightie" definitions (just under two years ago), when you declined to actually give a definition of "leftie"…
Quote:
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YouGov shows that the left-wing to right-wing political spectrum is actually much more complex than previously thought when it comes to public opinion
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Quote:
Framing politics in terms of left-wing and right-wing might be simple for politicians, and comforting to activists, but it seems that these terms just aren’t that useful for talking about - or indeed to - the general public.
A new YouGov study reveals that the political wing spectrum is poorly understood and also that huge numbers of people don’t hold consistent left- and right-wing outlooks.
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Quote:
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Of more than 100 political views we put to people, none were identified as being specifically left-wing or right-wing by more than 53% of people. That is to say, even for the very most stereotypically left- and right-wing policies, half of the population do not identify them as such.
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In short, very few are simply "leftie" or "rightie", but instead, have a range of views on a number of different political subjects, and believing that there is a simplistic dichotomy between types of voters based solely because "you say so" is an interesting viewpoint…
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03-06-2025, 18:48
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#463
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,409
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I don't think you are the one to pray Pierre in aid!
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I'm just agreeing with him (I know, I know  ), I'm not asking him to back me up. 
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03-06-2025, 18:48
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#464
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Half in the corporeal, half in the etheral
Posts: 37,181
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I don't think you are the one to pray Pierre in aid! I suspect that what I said about lefties does chime with Pierre. He'll quickly come back to say if I'm wrong.
Lefties will always be lefties; it's the "right" that is somewhat fuzzy. The term is wielded in so many contexts (such as law and order, migration), ending up with the leftie PM calling the rest of us fascist to all intents and purposes.
But the leftie is a known entity. Reform is not in that category and Red Wall voters who support Reform are obviously not lefties.
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You don't happen to run a website for affordable, quality marital aids by any chance?
There's a certain familiarity about this.... 
__________________
From Jim Cornette:
“Ty, Fy, bye”
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04-06-2025, 14:21
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#465
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,766
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Re: Reform UK's chronicles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Got to love self-affirming circular logic…
Sephiroth - "anything I say is "leftie" is "leftie", is a "known entity", so no more definition is required, whilst "right" is somewhat fuzzy, as that gives me wiggle room if I’m called out on anything, and I can always use the old "look, they don’t agree with my definition, so they must be calling us fascists to all intents and purposes (even though they haven’t, the old ad-hominem dog-whistle is always useful…)
Some snippets from YouGov surveys when we last discussed "leftie" vs "rightie" definitions (just under two years ago), when you declined to actually give a definition of "leftie"…
In short, very few are simply "leftie" or "rightie", but instead, have a range of views on a number of different political subjects. and believing that there is a simplistic dichotomy between types of voters based solely because "you say so" is an interesting viewpoint…
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I think that's true of most supporters of any particular party because politics is often about compromise. People usually tend to vote for the party that most aligns with their views and beliefs.
This is why I am a floating voter, at each election I consider everything on offer and make a decision based upon that.
There will always be people who vote for the same party in the same way that they think they should be loyal to a football team, so it's floating voters who essentially decide who wins an election.
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