UK trying to access your private data on Apple.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Paul

You make the same mistake as the idiots requesting this.
It WILL NOT suddenly stop "terrorist plots, paedophile activity etc etc".
They will simply move on to using something else, all that will be affected is OUR privacy.

There is no "third way". The answer is as simple as its always been, leave it alone.

There’s already a third way IIRC it’s a criminal offence to not provide the police access to a secured device under s49 RIPA (or something like that) it carries a two year custodial sentence but this is very rarely used.

Surely a simple action would just to make it an automatic ten year sentence

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Paul

You make the same mistake as the idiots requesting this.
It WILL NOT suddenly stop "terrorist plots, paedophile activity etc etc".
They will simply move on to using something else, all that will be affected is OUR privacy.

There is no "third way". The answer is as simple as its always been, leave it alone.

I'm sure that they will move onto using a different service to circumvent this, yes, but to not do so is akin to someone saying that they won't install a burglar alarm because burglars will choose other unalarmed houses.

The answer would be for other houses to install a burglar alarm too, which is an analogy for the government to change the law to allow itself access to all messaging services.

However, this means we are then back to the situation where the electorate must decide whether it favours personal privacy or easier detection of crimes like terrorism, paedophilic activity etc.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I'm sure that they will move onto using a different service to circumvent this, yes, but to not do so is akin to someone saying that they won't install a burglar alarm because burglars will choose other unalarmed houses.

The answer would be for other houses to install a burglar alarm too, which is an analogy for the government to change the law to allow itself access to all messaging services.

The fact you actually believe this shows you dont understand.

In that example, which isnt really close at all, it would be like giving the burglers the keys to your house, so when they break in, they dont have to kick down the door first.

[tweetiepooh]

You do have to ask about the rights of people who need to communicate securely, maybe with family in other parts of the world with unfriendly governmental actors. Or whistle blowers etc.
If you build in a backdoor for the government, how long before that backdoor is compromised? What about a future government?
I don't want anyone other than myself and intended recipients to be able to access my data. The fact that the same secure platforms are used for illegal purposes doesn't mean we weaken the platform for everyone. We don't ban cars because some people use them illegally or irresponsibly.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

You do have to ask about the rights of people who need to communicate securely, maybe with family in other parts of the world with unfriendly governmental actors. Or whistle blowers etc.
If you build in a backdoor for the government, how long before that backdoor is compromised? What about a future government?
I don't want anyone other than myself and intended recipients to be able to access my data. The fact that the same secure platforms are used for illegal purposes doesn't mean we weaken the platform for everyone. We don't ban cars because some people use them illegally or irresponsibly.

You make some valid points. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Sirius

They would refuse on the grounds of national security which is the standard cop out.

Which they use all the time.

Apple has pulled the advanced encryption features now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo

Pathetic policy.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I'm sure that they will move onto using a different service to circumvent this, yes, but to not do so is akin to someone saying that they won't install a burglar alarm because burglars will choose other unalarmed houses.

The answer would be for other houses to install a burglar alarm too, which is an analogy for the government to change the law to allow itself access to all messaging services.

However, this means we are then back to the situation where the electorate must decide whether it favours personal privacy or easier detection of crimes like terrorism, paedophilic activity etc.

As you particularly know only too well, I'm part of a paedophile hunter group. my team nor I claim to know it all (it's a case of "you build a bigger mouse trap, we'll build a bigger mouse") but I can assure you this will do little if anything to deter the preds. I suspect you know they rarely work alone and will simply collaborate to find newer ways to exchange /access material without getting caught.

You may slow them down temporarily, but you won't stop them.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Damien

Apple has pulled the advanced encryption features now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo

Pathetic policy.

Looks like this is a compromise so that the law enforcement agencies can access material if necessary, without having to build a back door or master key. Apple say that they don't want to do this as to do so could eventually be used to allow unauthorised people in.

---------- Post added at 18:59 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

As you particularly know only too well, I'm part of a paedophile hunter group. my team nor I claim to know it all (it's a case of "you build a bigger mouse trap, we'll build a bigger mouse") but I can assure you this will do little if anything to deter the preds. I suspect you know they rarely work alone and will simply collaborate to find newer ways to exchange /access material without getting caught.

You may slow them down temporarily, but you won't stop them.

Things like this are always a game of cat and mouse. Just as your group intend to dynamically react to the way that child sex abusers change their methods to try to escape detection, it looks like wider society is doing the same.

I suspect that the vast amount of child exploitation goes undetected, but that doesn't mean that everybody should stop trying to eradicate it.

It's also not confined to trying to prevent & detect child sex abusers, it's also being done to deal with other unlawful activity like terrorism.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Damien

Apple has pulled the advanced encryption features now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj54eq4vejo

Pathetic policy.

i wonder if this will have an impact on i phone sales

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Looks like this is a compromise so that the law enforcement agencies can access material if necessary, without having to build a back door or master key.

Its not a compromise at all, Apple have been forced to remove this service to UK users.

The only people this will affect are normal UK users. Great own goal by our incredibly stupid government.

As has been said many times, if you think this will have any effect at all on criminals, you are as naive as the idiots who forced apple into this position.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i wonder if this will have an impact on i phone sales

Not massively I wouldn't think. I don't think Android has this (outside of a third-party service) and not a lot of Apple users had the featured turned on. I didn't actually turn it on.

[nffc]

About time these guys got booted. Has a government ever gone from such a big majority to being so hated in such a short space of time?

Originally Posted by nffc

About time these guys got booted. Has a government ever gone from such a big majority to being so hated in such a short space of time?

Wouldn't make a difference. Both parties are like this. The law in question was passed by the Tories.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by nffc

About time these guys got booted. Has a government ever gone from such a big majority to being so hated in such a short space of time?

Speak for yourself. How would someone boot them and who do you suggest replaces them? Hopefully in a few years time, when election time arrives, it won't be the previous incompetent and corrupt shower back in.