UK Energy Prices

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Onshore wind power is the cheapest form of power so if we can get more domestic sources of this and the ability to store it, then bills should start to come down.

Bills won't come down until the market is reformed and the grid upgraded

Originally Posted by Taf

I noticed something on this last bill that disturbs me a little.

All previous bills gave the unit costs and Standing Charges INCLUSIVE of VAT.

This last one adds the VAT at the end of the bill.

All my Octopus bills (since I moved over early this year) have the VAT added separately in the detail page, but inclusive on the summary page.

Originally Posted by Taf

I've just received my latest bill from Scottish Power.

Their mix of supply is as follows:

Gas 68%
Coal 15%
Nuclear 11%
Renewable 0%
Other 6%

So much for the "Green Revolution" that is costing us more on our bills.

That makes no sense at all, the last coal powered station shut down a few months ago, and coal only accounted for 0.6% of power over the last 12 months.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

That makes no sense at all, the last coal powered station shut down a few months ago, and coal only accounted for 0.6% of power over the last 12 months.

Two aspects about the energy breakdown Taf quoted:
- it's for the period 2023-2024 hence coal is on it
- it's for a non-green tariff hence no renewables are on it!

The overall UK total power mix for 2023-2024 was:
- Renewable 43%
- Gas 35%
- Nuclear 13%
- Coal 6%
- Other 3%

https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/abou...mance/fuel-mix

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

- it's for the period 2023-2024 hence coal is on it
- it's for a non-green tariff hence no renewables are on it!

1. So old and thus not really relevant to his current bill.

2. Your electricity comes from the same sources, whatever tarrif you are on.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

- it's for the period 2023-2024 hence coal is on it

It's for 1 Oct 24 to 2 Dec 24.

A lot of electricity comes from Europe, where coal is still being used.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

1. So old and thus not really relevant to his current bill.

2. Your electricity comes from the same sources, whatever tarrif you are on.

It is the same source as Taf's bill and has exactly the same percentage breakdown for the non-green tariffs as is Taf does.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Taf

It's for 1 Oct 24 to 2 Dec 24.

A lot of electricity comes from Europe, where coal is still being used.

I'm sure the bill is but it is highly unlikely that the fuel breakdown is, as it matches exactly the fuel breakdown breakdown on the website which is labelled 2023-2024.

Good call to mention imports for account for the coal mix.

Originally Posted by Taf

A lot of electricity comes from Europe, where coal is still being used.

A lot ? Not really.
Imports can account for up to 15% of our electricity (its lower on most days) and a lot of that comes from low carbon sources (Like France which is mostly Nuclear & Hydro, plus Belgium & Norway, which have no coal generation at all). Odd thing as well, on most days we import, we also export, mostly to Ireland.

---------- Post added at 22:54 ---------- Previous post was at 22:50 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Good call to mention imports for account for the coal mix.

Nope, not really. See above.

---------- Post added at 22:59 ---------- Previous post was at 22:54 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It is the same source as Taf's bill and has exactly the same percentage breakdown for the non-green tariffs as is Taf does.

That is just complete BS.
You cannot separate out the source of peoples electricity like that.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

That is just complete BS.
You cannot separate out the source of peoples electricity like that.

That's the industry's way of presenting it and if it was misleading, they would have had Ofgem and the ASA on their case. They've probably spent more time than you and me on considering this matter.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's the industry's way of presenting it and if it was misleading, they would have had Ofgem and the ASA on their case. They've probably spent more time than you and me on considering this matter.

You really are as naive as people say.
Its not just misleading, its full on B/S.
Still, yes, I'm sure their marketing execs spent lots of time on it.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

You really are as naive as people say.
Its not just misleading, its full on B/S.
Still, yes, I'm sure their marketing execs spent lots of time on it.

How can the information be better presented?

These graphs show the proportion of generation sources that are on the grid as a result of the purchasing decisions made by your electricity supplier.. They don’t in any way reflect the source of the energy actually consumed in your home.

In a sense it’s a bit like a chef force-feeding a vegan a steak but telling him it’s ok because the dinner he actually ordered is still being eaten somewhere in the restaurant.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

These graphs show the proportion of generation sources that are on the grid as a result of the purchasing decisions made by your electricity supplier.. They don’t in any way reflect the source of the energy actually consumed in your home.

In a sense it’s a bit like a chef force-feeding a vegan a steak but telling him it’s ok because the dinner he actually ordered is still being eaten somewhere in the restaurant.

I don't think anyone's under the illusion that you can trace anyone's electricity to a particular source. At any one time, a house on a green energy tariff could be supplied by electricity generated by gas and one on a non-green tariff could be supplied by renewables.

But that doesn't mean that the fuel breakdowns are bull.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I don't think anyone's under the illusion that you can trace anyone's electricity to a particular source. At any one time, a house on a green energy tariff could be supplied by electricity generated by gas and one on a non-green tariff could be supplied by renewables.

But that doesn't mean that the fuel breakdowns are bull.

Oh, I think a very great number of people do think exactly this. Do not underestimate how cheerfully stupid a lot of people are. And I don’t mean that perjoratively - it is simply the case that an excessively large number of people will look at an official chart and take it without any critical engagement at all. If you’re in any doubt, spend just 10 minutes sifting through the content’s of your home town’s Facebook groups.

We just don’t teach critical thinking in our schools. Historically, we taught facts. These days, we teach research and integration. What we don’t do is teach to question and critically evaluate. You have to do an arts degree at university to get anywhere near that. So unless you’re naturally interested in that sort of thing (and the membership of a forum like this is naturally self-selecting in that regard) you have never been exposed to the mental toolkit you need to instinctively challenge the contents of an official graph someone has printed and posted through your door.