Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

[papa smurf]

this thread certainly brings out the worst in people

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Cue, "yeah but 7 October, proportionate response"

What does “proportionate” have to do with anything?


I see, in your world the IDF should have just lined up 1200 Palestinians and shot them, raped a few and then call it even?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

What does “proportionate” have to do with anything?

I see, in your world the IDF should have just lined up 1200 Palestinians and shot them, raped a few and then call it even?

Probably preferable to bombing 40,000 of them and raping a few.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

Nobody missed that - it gets mentioned often enough - it’s the tens of thousands of slaughtered Palestinians that get overlooked. Efforts to make October 7th day 1 in the conflict erase decades of Palestinian suffering and occupation. Framing it that way, so to speak.

You are wasting your time: I've said it, you've said it but it will never be enough. One of the main reasons why the Gazans have been/are being killed with impunity is that when the subject is raised, the narrative is changed.

---------- Post added at 10:45 ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Cue, "yeah but 7 October, proportionate response"

You forgot "the right to defend itself".

[tweetiepooh]

People on all sides are getting killed because of the actions of groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and extreme Zionist groups. But on the Israel side there are means to bring those in charge or responsible to account, or there should be.
IDF members who behave "illegally" will be brought to account and charged (or they would be unless the current regime also behave "illegally"). Israeli politicians are elected and can be unselected should the populace deem it necessary. What checks are there on those opposing Israel? Palestinians elected Hamas, they could see what Hamas were doing, why not vote for a different party? (OK yes it is hard when they have guns and you don't but showing willing to assist then with the IDF in getting rid of them could save many lives.)
Still it is easy to comment from our safe houses where we don't face missiles coming in daily or people with guns threatening you and your family if you don't help or a military response from people angry that their friends and family have been attacked.
Neither side is well served by the international community. Views are often too unilateral and not interested enough in a fair and supported peace, I guess because what is "fair" is very hard to define for all sides but also too many vested interests to one side or the other.

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

People on all sides are getting killed because of the actions of groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and extreme Zionist groups. But on the Israel side there are means to bring those in charge or responsible to account, or there should be.
IDF members who behave "illegally" will be brought to account and charged (or they would be unless the current regime also behave "illegally"). Israeli politicians are elected and can be unselected should the populace deem it necessary. What checks are there on those opposing Israel? Palestinians elected Hamas, they could see what Hamas were doing, why not vote for a different party? (OK yes it is hard when they have guns and you don't but showing willing to assist then with the IDF in getting rid of them could save many lives.)
Still it is easy to comment from our safe houses where we don't face missiles coming in daily or people with guns threatening you and your family if you don't help or a military response from people angry that their friends and family have been attacked.
Neither side is well served by the international community. Views are often too unilateral and not interested enough in a fair and supported peace, I guess because what is "fair" is very hard to define for all sides but also too many vested interests to one side or the other.

From previous posts in this thread (15/10/2023)

The last elections that were held in the Palestinian Territories (which includes the Gaza Strip and the West Bank) in 2006, and Hamas won a majority (44%) of the vote, and then a Fatah-Hamas Coalition Government was formed. The following year, Hamas seized power in the Gaza Strip, and there have been no elections there since.

It was 44% of those voting in the Palestinian Authority (Gaza & the West Bank) - and since 65% of the current Gaza Strip population is under 25, they definitely didn’t vote for them…

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
People on all sides are getting killed because of the actions of groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and extreme Zionist groups.

Don’t know who the “extreme Zionist groups” are?

Look we need to cut the BS about how any of this is to do with a Palestinian state.

This is about Iran’s Islamic cult of twelver Shi’ism, need to erase Israel, and their vow to do so, in order to facilitate the return of their messiah Mahdi by 2040.

You can’t reason with fanatical religious fundamentalists, so don’t try.

Until there is regime change in Iran this continues, hopefully Trump can hurt them financially going forward, and they haven’t got Russia to help them, as Assad has found out.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by Paul

Seems correct, if Hamas had not attacked, Israel would not have responded. Do you have proof otherwise ?

Of course, you forgot to mention that Hamas "killed innocent men, women & children", funny how you missed that ....

I was under the impression the Israel or Israeli Jewish citizens have been killing, maiming and forcing non Jews to leave their homes for years . Never mind taking over the west bank. .What did they really think would happen. Please note I am not taking a side just commenting

[papa smurf]

Syria latest: Israeli tanks reported 'less than 20 miles' from Damascus
Israeli tanks are near the Syrian capital of Damascus, according to three security sources cited by Reuters - though the IDF has denied the claims. It follows reported IDF strikes on three Syrian airbases overnight.


here we go again


https://news.sky.com/story/syria-lat...rants-13265154

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Syria latest: Israeli tanks reported 'less than 20 miles' from Damascus
Israeli tanks are near the Syrian capital of Damascus, according to three security sources cited by Reuters - though the IDF has denied the claims. It follows reported IDF strikes on three Syrian airbases overnight.


here we go again


https://news.sky.com/story/syria-lat...rants-13265154

Oh those cheeky chappies making yet another land grab under the guise of <insert BS statement here>

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Oh those cheeky chappies making yet another land grab under the guise of <insert BS statement here>

Strange the first thing on your mind is Land Grab

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Strange the first thing on your mind is Land Grab

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

Maybe because of this happening?

https://news.sky.com/story/egypt-acc...-zone-13270377

Israeli troops have seized a demilitarised buffer zone in the Golan Heights in a move that has been criticised by Egypt and Qatar.

Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said his forces had entered the 155-square mile area after a rebel advance ended Syrian President Bashar al Assad's rule on Sunday.

The zone was established by a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Syria in 1974.

Mr Netanyahu said the 50-year-old deal had collapsed and Syrian troops had abandoned their positions in the zone, necessitating the Israeli takeover as a "temporary defensive position".

[jfman]

I suspect the CIA’s useful idiots here are going to realise how flimsy their allegiances are even quicker than usual.

Originally Posted by jfman

I suspect the CIA’s useful idiots here are going to realise how flimsy their allegiances are even quicker than usual.

Well, I suppose the tankies/vatniks have to look for some positives out of this, no matter how tenuous...