Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There you have it. If only the EU had been a major trading partner and not a political institution heading towards integration and all our overarching laws being made in Brussels. You don't seem to understand that.

I'm sure given your travel in Europe, you know this particular conspiracy theory to be far-fetched.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm sure given your travel in Europe, you know this particular conspiracy theory to be far-fetched.

Not at all. Successive Commission Presidents have preached that in their inauguration speeches.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Not at all. Successive Commission Presidents have preached that in their inauguration speeches.

Do you have a recent link or is this perhaps a Farage fantasy? Like the one about farmers being better off?

Defra officials buried analysis showing dire financial prospects for hill farmers

Exclusive: FOI request reveals fears many would sell up if they saw assessment of post-Brexit farming payments scheme

Many upland farmers only remain financially viable because of the EU-derived basic payment scheme (BPS), a system that will be completely phased out by 2027.

Post-Brexit farming payments schemes will be given to farmers who restore nature, but they are easier to access for those who own their land. Many upland farmers are commoners or tenants, and many of the most lucrative options under the BPS replacement, such as creating wildflower meadows, improving soil heath and reducing pesticide use, are geared towards lowland arable farms. This means upland farmers have feared losing BPS and being unable to make enough money under the new scheme to make ends meet.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ayments-scheme

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Do you have a recent link or is this perhaps a Farage fantasy? <SNIP>

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres.../speech_24_564

A selected paragraph from the 2024 WDL speech follows.

But too little has been said about his faith in Europe as a community of destiny. As we know, Jacques Delors was a believer. A man of faith. A man convinced that human beings fulfil their destiny by engaging with society, helping their neighbour. After all, he had seen with his own eyes the painful history of Europe and its tragic human consequences. That shaped his conviction that our eyes should be firmly fixed on the goal of ever-closer union between the nations and peoples that make up Europe, amid peace, freedom and solidarity. So a moral and historical mission as much as a pragmatic solution to the challenges we face. As he said himself in a speech to the European Parliament: ‘Europe, despite the risk of succumbing to its divisions, remains wonderfully rich in its diversity. We must preserve this diversity, or even better, help it to flourish, for the common good'. For Jacques Delors, this community of destiny had to be based on the principle of subsidiarity. Respecting pluralism meant respecting diversity, as he would say. The European Union he built was not an alternative to the nation state. And we see this philosophy reflected in our Union's motto today: ‘United in Diversity'.

I was amused by the wordplay on "subsidiarity" and "pluralism" "diversity". "Ever closer union" is enshrined in the EU's articles. The weasel words used to calm people down are not really honest.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres.../speech_24_564

A selected paragraph from the 2024 WDL speech follows.



I was amused by the wordplay on "subsidiarity" and "pluralism" "diversity". "Ever closer union" is enshrined in the EU's articles. The weasel words used to calm people down are not really honest.

Have you got a quote from an actual inauguration speech? Afterall it is a the type of speech you're basing your argument on.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

Have you got a quote from an actual inauguration speech? Afterall it is a the type of speech you're basing your argument on.

Why do you need one? I proved my point anyway. Howver, to honour you, here's a link I've already posted somewhere in this thread:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...speech_19_4230

Selected paragraphs (and VDL's bold text, not mine):

None of these options are for us. We want multilateralism, we want fair trade, we defend the rules-based order because we know it is better for all of us. We have to do it the European way. But if we are to go down the European path, we must first rediscover our unity. If we are united on the inside, nobody will divide us from the outside.

If we close the gaps between us, we can turn today's challenges into tomorrow's opportunities.

As a Defence Minister, I have been many times in this war-torn neighbourhood. I will never forget the words of former President of Iraq Masoum, who said: We want to see more Europe here. The world is calling for more Europe. The world needs more Europe.

I believe Europe should have a stronger and more united voice in the world – and it needs to act fast. That is why we must have the courage to take foreign policy decisions by qualified majority. And to stand united behind them.

[jonbxx]

Of course the European Commission can propose ever closer union as much as it likes but it has no direct power to do this. Except in very limited technical areas, legislation would require the consent of the Parliament and Council. There would possibly be a need to update the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union which is a huge deal.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Of course the European Commission can propose ever closer union as much as it likes but it has no direct power to do this. Except in very limited technical areas, legislation would require the consent of the Parliament and Council. There would possibly be a need to update the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union which is a huge deal.

Exactly. Just blue-tinged Project Fear

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Of course the European Commission can propose ever closer union as much as it likes but it has no direct power to do this. Except in very limited technical areas, legislation would require the consent of the Parliament and Council. There would possibly be a need to update the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union which is a huge deal.

... and the EU Parliament is gagging for the ability to trump national parliaments. It's why we left the EU.

---------- Post added at 16:52 ---------- Previous post was at 16:41 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Exactly. Just blue-tinged Project Fear

Good one (although I object!).

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

... and the EU Parliament is gagging for the ability to trump national parliaments. It's why we left the EU.

I though we left the EU to improve the NHS.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

... and the EU Parliament is gagging for the ability to trump national parliaments. It's why we left the EU.

MEPs of course elected by the citizens of the member states. You of course also have the council who directly represent the governments of the member states.

Oh and don’t forget the thankless work of COREPER I and II who represent the nation states at committee level

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Why do you need one? I proved my point anyway. Howver, to honour you, here's a link I've already posted somewhere in this thread:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...speech_19_4230

Selected paragraphs (and VDL's bold text, not mine):

I'll be generous and let you have a third attempt, and here's a link to the definition of inaugural you may find helpful .

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

MEPs of course elected by the citizens of the member states. You of course also have the council who directly represent the governments of the member states.

Oh and don’t forget the thankless work of COREPER I and II who represent the nation states at committee level

... Oh and don't forget that they tended to outvote the UK in the Parliament.

We look like them but don't think like them.

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

I'll be generous and let you have a third attempt, and here's a link to the definition of inaugural you may find helpful .

That's your best shot? A definition of "inaugural" as distinct from the VDL words that prove my point?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

We look like them but don't think like them.

Thank goodness we think like the multicultural immigrants whom we now receive in the place of the EU ones.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

... Oh and don't forget that they tended to outvote the UK in the Parliament.

We look like them but don't think like them.

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------





That's your best shot? A definition of "inaugural" as distinct from the VDL words that prove my point?

Eh?

Are you trying to say that Danes think like Italians, and the Spanish think like Germans, and the Portuguese think like the Irish?