The Chronicles of Rishi

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Unfortunately people only open their eyes when they or their family need those public services

What is Labour's plan for public services? If you don't know, you shouldn't be supporting them. I do understand that the Tories have governed very badly and need throwing out. But Labour isn't the answer.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

If you want to pay more tax and have higher interest rates on your mortgage.

Be careful what you wish for.

Unless you’re psychic that’s pure whataboutery

---------- Post added at 19:25 ---------- Previous post was at 19:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

What is Labour's plan for public services? If you don't know, you shouldn't be supporting them. I do understand that the Tories have governed very badly and need throwing out. But Labour isn't the answer.

You wouldn’t be stating that people need to provide evidence for their argument to be credible would you ?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Unless you’re psychic that’s pure whataboutery

---------- Post added at 19:25 ---------- Previous post was at 19:23 ----------



You wouldn’t be stating that people need to provide evidence for their argument to be credible would you ?

I just want you to justify what you post. Doesn't need evidence - just intelligent opinion.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I just want you to justify what you post. Doesn't need evidence - just intelligent opinion.

One usually justifies a statement with evidence, no?

Regardless of the above, to a degree you have a point. The tories have pretty much ruined this country over their time in government. And whilst you have a point that Labour MIGHT not be the answer. If it comes down to it I’d rather let Labour have a crack at it rather than than this shower of crap have another go.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

One usually justifies a statement with evidence, no?

Regardless of the above, to a degree you have a point. The tories have pretty much ruined this country over their time in government. And whilst you have a point that Labour MIGHT not be the answer. If it comes down to it I’d rather let Labour have a crack at it rather than than this shower of crap have another go.

No. Try opinion, well reasoned opinion will do.

There is a lot about this country that the Tories have ruined. That we have not gone into meltdown is due to business just carrying on despite government.

I think your point about you wanting Labour to have a crack at doing a better job, is reasonable. The difference between us, I suspect, is that Labour will just rob people they define as rich. So elderly people in their family homes won't be able to afford the property taxes Labour will impose and will have their lives turned upside down.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

If you want to pay more tax and have higher interest rates on your mortgage.

Be careful what you wish for.

How bad does it have to be and how long does it have to go on for before you realise the current government is incompetent, corrupt and a complete catastrophy. You must have some military grade blinkers on.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

No. Try opinion, well reasoned opinion will do.

There is a lot about this country that the Tories have ruined. That we have not gone into meltdown is due to business just carrying on despite government.

I think your point about you wanting Labour to have a crack at doing a better job, is reasonable. The difference between us, I suspect, is that Labour will just rob people they define as rich. So elderly people in their family homes won't be able to afford the property taxes Labour will impose and will have their lives turned upside down.

The moderately wealthy are already getting their eyes gauged out mon ami… I could send you my P60 and then my self assessment for last year and I suspect you would fall out of your chair.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by denphone

Taxes are at their highest in this country since 1951, and all under this administration..

And the NHS just keeps getting money thrown at it, and it’s still a basket case.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It's all very well going on about the government's poor record.
But you lefties dodge any substance as to whether or not Labour can do any better.

So far as I can see, their flagship policy is VAT on private schools and they've allocated the funds they think they'll get to other educational spend. We all know what's going to happen - non-rich people who beggar themselves to put their kids into private school will have to go back to state schools, adding to government cost and smashing their stupid projections into vapour.

Labour will not be good for the country. Yet, I fear, that's what will happen.

Again you namecall and insult some forum members because of the paucity of your arguments.

Given we have had one colour of government for the last 14 years, anything is going to be better then the constant shitshows and daily internecine political warfare on the Conservatives watch.

Perhaps if they put the country first rather then their own grubby selfish narrow interests then this country might be in better shape.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

The moderately wealthy are already getting their eyes gauged out mon ami… I could send you my P60 and then my self assessment for last year and I suspect you would fall out of your chair.

... and you want that to get worse (under Labour)?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

... and you want that to get worse (under Labour)?

Again, that’s whataboutery…. The tories have mismanaged the public purse throughout their term. I have no problem with paying the levels of tax and ni and in some instances I get to pay employers ni too IF that money is used prudently. It’s almost certain that this current fiscal mismanagement would continue if the tories were returned. Labour have been out of the spotlight long enough for them to be given the opportunity. I don’t expect miracles, I just hope they will be less crap than the current lot in power

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Again, that’s whataboutery…. The tories have mismanaged the public purse throughout their term. I have no problem with paying the levels of tax and ni and in some instances I get to pay employers ni too IF that money is used prudently. It’s almost certain that this current fiscal mismanagement would continue if the tories were returned. Labour have been out of the spotlight long enough for them to be given the opportunity. I don’t expect miracles, I just hope they will be less crap than the current lot in power

Agreed, this shower have set the bar so low it would be almost impossible to do a worse job. You never know Labour might prove to have the odd scruple here and there and try to actually improve the country rather than their own self serving needs. It would be a refreshing change.

[Pierre]

Fun fact that since 2010, the conservatives have only had a majority government for 6 yrs and 1 month of the 13yrs and 1 month.

3 yrs of that 6yrs blighted by COVID.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Again, that’s whataboutery…. The tories have mismanaged the public purse throughout their term. I have no problem with paying the levels of tax and ni and in some instances I get to pay employers ni too IF that money is used prudently. It’s almost certain that this current fiscal mismanagement would continue if the tories were returned. Labour have been out of the spotlight long enough for them to be given the opportunity. I don’t expect miracles, I just hope they will be less crap than the current lot in power

What is opinion if not "whataboutery"?

Your hope in Labour will be shared by a large chunk of the nation. I have nothing positive to say about the Tories. But I know what Labour is and I know what the MPs for East London, Bradford, etc want to achieve as they try to wag the dog.

Voting Labour will come with all sorts of baggage that we don't want.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Fun fact that since 2010, the conservatives have only had a majority government for 6 yrs and 1 month of the 13yrs and 1 month.

3 yrs of that 6yrs blighted by COVID.

I’m not sure they can be given a pass for three years of Covid considering their behaviour during that period

IMHO it all adds up

---------- Post added at 21:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

What is opinion if not "whataboutery"?

Your hope in Labour will be shared by a large chunk of the nation. I have nothing positive to say about the Tories. But I know what Labour is and I know what the MPs for East London, Bradford, etc want to achieve as they try to wag the dog.

Voting Labour will come with all sorts of baggage that we don't want.

Whataboutery ‘the practice of repeatedly blaming the other side and referring to events from the past’ so for all wants and purpose they would be historical evidence.

In its simplest form for me it boils down to this.

Do I believe that the country will improve if the tories are reelected ? No
Do I believe that electing Labour represents a risk ? Yes
Do I believe that there is a credible alternative to either the tories or Labour ? No
Do I believe that the risk of electing a Labour government is higher than the risk of reelecting a Tory government ? No

For me, Labour represent the least crap of the available viable options

A sad indictment of the political situation in the U.K.