Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, well people say that when they analyse the voting figures at elections. The ruling party rarely gets anywhere near 50% of the vote.

I'm sure analysing voting figures is a consolation to the innocent that are being bombed (with our support).

Wake up OB, you're a nice bloke I know. Murder is murder whoever does it. We should call it out whichever side is responsible. Seems we only do it for one side.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yes, well people say that when they analyse the voting figures at elections. The ruling party rarely gets anywhere near 50% of the vote.

There is no election,no voting going on in that particular part of the world.It's overreaction by mighty Israel government because they got caught out for once and despicable behaviour by a terrorist group that hides in the midst of innocent citizens that have no choice but to live where they do.

Israel have no moral defence whatsoever in this case.Hamas are Hamas and always beyond the pale in every situation when they assume that everyone in Gaza subscribes to their viewpoint.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Maggy

There is no election,no voting going on in that particular part of the world.It's overreaction by mighty Israel government because they got caught out for once and despicable behaviour by a terrorist group that hides in the midst of innocent citizens that have no choice but to live where they do.

Israel have no moral defence whatsoever in this case. Hamas are Hamas and always beyond the pale in every situation when they assume that everyone in Gaza subscribes to their viewpoint.

What an awful thing to say> The 2nd part of the sentence does not provide balance.

Your 2nd paragraph is an even worse attempt to provide balance. In both sentences, Israel comes first in your "criticism". Hamas are murderers and Israel is defending itself.

The collateral damage is a tragedy brought about by Hamas who, unlike Israel, do not care a jot about their people.

Corbyn would like you.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]What an awful thing to say> The 2nd part of the sentence does not provide balance.

Unfortunately Maggy’s mask has slipped, along with many other (excuse the labels) lefty, progressive, etc etc etc.

The Rape of women, and then the parading of their violated dead bodies, the murder of babies, toddlers and children, in front of their families and beheadngs, the total massacres of communities.

According to Maggy, that’s Israel being “caught out”. Disgusting.

This whole tragedy, has really shined some UV, on both sides. But the reactions from the good progressive people have really been quite telling.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

44% voting for an ISIS-like terrorist organisation is very telling as to the mindset of Palestinians living in Gaza.

Isis didn't exist at the time of the vote, seems odd to blame them for not making the comparison to something that didn't exist

Israel says it didn’t bomb people who followed their advice.

Go figure.

We know you've not been paying attention but it's happened more than once and it's already been verified to have been Israel that did it after ordering people to leave their homes but yeah go figure

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Isis didn't exist at the time of the vote, seems odd to blame them for not making the comparison to something that didn't exist



We know you've not been paying attention but it's happened more than once and it's already been verified to have been Israel that did it after ordering people to leave their homes but yeah go figure

ISIS/Schmeisis/Al Qaeda/Hamas/Hezbollah - all dark shades of the same colour. You're splitting hairs.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Corbyn would like you.

Is it not time to put the Corbyn trope to bed since it’s now confirmed as what some of us always suspected? A lazy trope to slur anyone that doesn’t place Israeli deaths and casualties on a pedestal above those caused by Israel.

---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

ISIS/Schmeisis/Al Qaeda/Hamas/Hezbollah - all dark shades of the same colour. You're splitting hairs.

Which makes Israel’s war crimes even more futile. You can’t defeat an idea or a concept while fuelling the fires of injustice in which it breeds.

---------- Post added at 22:22 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Unfortunately Maggy’s mask has slipped, along with many other (excuse the labels) lefty, progressive, etc etc etc.

The Rape of women, and then the parading of their violated dead bodies, the murder of babies, toddlers and children, in front of their families and beheadngs, the total massacres of communities.

According to Maggy, that’s Israel being “caught out”. Disgusting.

This whole tragedy, has really shined some UV, on both sides. But the reactions from the good progressive people have really been quite telling.

Come on Pierre, your good points well made don’t need you to embellish what others say.

Nobody disputes Israeli intelligence appears to have dropped the ball. They’re usually the best in the business. The words that shortly follow “caught out” are “despicable behaviour by a terrorist group”. That’s exactly what your second paragraph describes. Nobody doubts it and nobody disagrees.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

ISIS/Schmeisis/Al Qaeda/Hamas/Hezbollah - all dark shades of the same colour. You're splitting hairs.

I'd rather split hairs than victim blame

Originally Posted by jfman

Come on Pierre, your good points well made don’t need you to embellish what others say.

Nobody disputes Israeli intelligence appears to have dropped the ball. They’re usually the best in the business. The words that shortly follow “caught out” are “despicable behaviour by a terrorist group”. That’s exactly what your second paragraph describes. Nobody doubts it and nobody disagrees.

I've been seeing since the day it happened that they were warned repeatedly that Hamas were about to strike, there was no need for their intelligence to find anything out, it was handed to them so you've got to wonder why nothing was done and then my covid riddled mind drifts back to the amount of articles I've read in Jewish newspapers stating Netanyahu bolsters hamas to stop a two state solution which is the thing he actually fears most and whilst I'm not saying he was in on it what I am saying is limited stikes with limited victims may well have suited his agenda just fine

Originally Posted by Pierre

Unfortunately Maggy’s mask has slipped, along with many other (excuse the labels) lefty, progressive, etc etc etc.

The Rape of women, and then the parading of their violated dead bodies, the murder of babies, toddlers and children, in front of their families and beheadngs, the total massacres of communities.

According to Maggy, that’s Israel being “caught out”. Disgusting.

This whole tragedy, has really shined some UV, on both sides. But the reactions from the good progressive people have really been quite telling.

I condemn both sides and you still make out that I'm partisan?You have no basic understanding of plain English apparently or you are just blinkered in your world view.

---------- Post added at 08:35 ---------- Previous post was at 08:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

What an awful thing to say> The 2nd part of the sentence does not provide balance.

Your 2nd paragraph is an even worse attempt to provide balance. In both sentences, Israel comes first in your "criticism". Hamas are murderers and Israel is defending itself.

The collateral damage is a tragedy brought about by Hamas who, unlike Israel, do not care a jot about their people.

Corbyn would like you.

I supported Israel for years BUT in the last 5 years I have been appalled by their behaviour in regards to their neighbours. I have no love for ANY terrorist organisation least of all Hamas.I dislike every single person who would support them. THE ONLY PEOPLE I SUPPORT IN THIS SITUATION are those who are who are just ordinary people who cannot escape the power hungry terrorist groups and the big bad wolf on their border who have persuaded the entire western world that they are the saints in this situation.You be fooled if you want I'm not.

Israel have gotten away with being bullies for too long especially under Benjamin Netanyahu.

[OLD BOY]

I don't think many of you have considered how difficult it is to live in a region where you are surrounded by beligerence and hostility.

Those codemning Israel have plenty to say whenever Israel fights back, but never seem to understand the plain fact that Hamas wants to erase Israel from the map and its people with it. Israel must fight fire with fire if it is to survive, and now Israel is determined to erase Hamas from the map. They have tolerated the constant hostility and rockets from them for long enough.

It is unfortunate that civilians will get in the way, but that's war. It's not pleasant, but that's the way it is, just like with the invasion of Ukraine.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don't think many of you have considered how difficult it is to live in a region where you are surrounded by beligerence and hostility.

Those codemning Israel have plenty to say whenever Israel fights back, but never seem to understand the plain fact that Hamas wants to erase Israel from the map and its people with it. Israel must fight fire with fire if it is to survive, and now Israel is determined to erase Hamas from the map. They have tolerated the constant hostility and rockets from them for long enough.

It is unfortunate that civilians will get in the way, but that's war. It's not pleasant, but that's the way it is, just like with the invasion of Ukraine.

Do you support cutting off the water and electricity supply to Gaza by Israel?

Civilised nation states do not fight war crimes by designing war crimes into their battle plans.

Yes, the Israel-Palestine conflict is difficult. Far more difficult than most people realise, given the tendency to appeal to two fixed points in history (either 1967 or 1948) which tend to simplify the issue beyond reason. But it is troubling that you choose to use a phrase like ‘erase from the map’ - quite aside from the fact that this is the language of genocide (and is what Iran has said it would like to do to Israel), it’s also the language of geography. You say ‘Hamas’, but do you truly hold a correct distinction between ‘Hamas’ and ‘Gaza’ or ‘Palestine’?

The laws of war, as defined in treaties Israel is signatory to, recognise the inevitability of civilian casualties in armed conflict. They also demand these be minimised. It is far from clear that Israel is doing anything to minimise civilian casualties in Gaza.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Do you support cutting off the water and electricity supply to Gaza by Israel?

It’s part of the act of wearing down the enemy, Andrew. I don’t like war full stop and wish everyone could live in peace, but we are all having to live in the world of reality.

[Ms NTL]

The Guardian will not publish any further cartoons from Steve Bell....

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It’s part of the act of wearing down the enemy, Andrew. I don’t like war full stop and wish everyone could live in peace, but we are all having to live in the world of reality.

No it isn't, Hamas aren't thirsty, they aren't hungry, it's collective punishment that's a war crime and the only people suffering are the poor Palestinians most of whom are children and never voted