Russia has invaded Ukraine

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

In May, it was reported that the first 20 Ukrainian pilots had entered F-16 training in UK
https://kyivindependent.com/media-fi...raining-in-uk/

They will be trained in Greece. Kalamata area, the same area as the olives

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

They will be trained in Greece. Kalamata area, the same area as the olives

Not until they’ve learned English and Nato fighter pilot basics. Advanced training on the F-16 itself will take place with the air forces that fly them, but the new cadre of pilots being recruited and entered for training from scratch will come to the UK first. Afterwards, I’m hearing, intermediate level training can take place in the UK or in France. Then it’s off to Greece, Netherlands, Denmark or anywhere else they actually have F-16s and capacity to train more pilots.

[1andrew1]

Will the F16s have a significant impact on the war or are they too little, too late?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Will the F16s have a significant impact on the war or are they too little, too late?

Amazingly, Russia has failed to really achieve air superiority in the absence of any F-16s.

I don't think they'll be a deciding factor, but just an extra ingredient.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Will the F16s have a significant impact on the war or are they too little, too late?

The main benefit is maintenance (there is a truly vast spare parts pool), availability of replacement aircraft for losses (literally 1,000s of them are just lying around in the US) and interoperability with the Nato weapons we’ve been giving them. You have to hack MiG-29s to get them to fire western missiles and it’s unlikely the full range of capabilities of those missiles are usable at present because of that.

They aren’t technically superior to what the Russians are flying but they will make the Ukrainian air force’s task somewhat more straightforward.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Chris

The main benefit is maintenance (there is a truly vast spare parts pool), availability of replacement aircraft for losses (literally 1,000s of them are just lying around in the US) and interoperability with the Nato weapons we’ve been giving them. You have to hack MiG-29s to get them to fire western missiles and it’s unlikely the full range of capabilities of those missiles are usable at present because of that.

They aren’t technically superior to what the Russians are flying but they will make the Ukrainian air force’s task somewhat more straightforward.

They are slightly as in longer range radar and AA missiles. The F16 can detect and fire on Russian aircraft before being detected themselves.

Originally Posted by pip08456

They are slightly as in longer range radar and AA missiles. The F16 can detect and fire on Russian aircraft before being detected themselves.

I’m not sure that’s the case.

Another area where they are at a disadvantage to the latest Russian aircraft is air-to-air combat. Large Russian air superiority fighters such as the MiG-31 and Su-35 can see significantly farther with their powerful, modern radars. They also have R-37 missiles that have a much longer range than NATO-supplied AIM-120 AMRAAMs. In other words, Russian aircraft can potentially spot Ukrainian F-16s and shoot them down before the Ukrainian pilots see them coming. This is exactly what has been happening with Ukraine's current fleet of Su-27 and MiG-29 fighters, and the improved capabilities of the F-16 are not enough to tilt this disparity in Ukraine's favor.

https://www.rand.org/blog/2023/05/wh...r-ukraine.html

Much will depend on what aircraft Russia can still put in the air and is happy to risk, or, perhaps, what their air crews are prepared to risk - they have been notably risk-averse for a lot of this conflict, since it’s become apparent that they can be taken out by MANPAD-type missiles, and now also by Patriots.

[pip08456]

My bad Chris. Was coparing it to the wrong Mig. You are correct.

Wagner boss Prigozhin killed in plane crash in Russia

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66599733

Breaking … aircraft down in Russia’s Tver region was connected with the Wagner private military company and had Evgeny Progozhin listed as a passenger. Reports that the plane was brought down by Russian air defence missiles.

Which, if true, is quite a riff on the Russian authorities usual ‘fell out of a window’ method for dealing with troublemakers.

---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

Scooped . I actually looked for a news report to link to, they must have posted that moments after I failed to find it and came here to post Tw*tter rumours instead …

[pip08456]

Oh dear, looks like Putin got his revenge.

Prigozhin was aboard the plane that was downed by the Russian air defenses, per Tass.

More to follow.

Idiot. What did he think would happen? The die was cast when he started the coup attempt, after that it was either all or nothing.

Originally Posted by Chris

Breaking … aircraft down in Russia’s Tver region was connected with the Wagner private military company and had Evgeny Progozhin listed as a passenger. Reports that the plane was brought down by Russian air defence missiles.

Which, if true, is quite a riff on the Russian authorities usual ‘fell out of a window’ method for dealing with troublemakers.

---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

Scooped . I actually looked for a news report to link to, they must have posted that moments after I failed to find it and came here to post Tw*tter rumours instead …

tbf, he still fell out of a window, it just happened to be at 30,000 feet…

If he had a few final seconds to reflect as he was being blown out of his seat he might perhaps have realised that if you start a coup against the Russian state machine you don’t just stop it on the outskirts of the capital territory and try to convince the Tsar of your goodwill. Warlord betrayed his sovereign, chickened out and paid the price. A tale as old as time.

In Russia, the plane does not crash, it undertakes a Special Aircraft Operation…