Russia has invaded Ukraine

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

That would be massive.

It would be a bad idea. Repel Russia to Ukraine’s borders and no further.

Originally Posted by Pierre

It would be a bad idea. Repel Russia to Ukraine’s borders and no further.

But that’s exactly what this will achieve, whether it has Ukrainian backing or not. Russia will have to withdraw some of its forces into its actual territory if it looks likely to be vulnerable.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

But that’s exactly what this will achieve, whether it has Ukrainian backing or not. Russia will have to withdraw some of its forces into its actual territory if it looks likely to be vulnerable.

I don't see why Ukraine should be penalised by not being able to cross the border into Russia. Its declared aim is not to capture anything but its pre-invasion territory. I can't see why the aggressor nation should enjoy more flexibility on this than the invaded one.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Chris

But that’s exactly what this will achieve, whether it has Ukrainian backing or not. Russia will have to withdraw some of its forces into its actual territory if it looks likely to be vulnerable.

Video of the (alledged) forces operating on Belgorod.

https://targum.video/v/2023/5/22/2f9...99ab6e5fa942b/

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I don't see why Ukraine should be penalised by not being able to cross the border into Russia. Its declared aim is not to capture anything but its pre-invasion territory. I can't see why the aggressor nation should enjoy more flexibility on this than the invaded one.

They won’t be - having been invaded by Russia, taking the fight to Russia in pursuit of their liberation is entirely permissible in international law. So far the only arms donor that has commented is the US which has said it strongly prefers its equipment not to be used to attack targets within Russia *but* at the end of the day Ukraine does have the right to decide how to free itself and Russia should remember that they started this.

[pip08456]

Prigozhin thinks all of Russia could be lost? (video with English subs)


https://twitter.com/DylanBurns1776/s...51213608853507

Originally Posted by pip08456

Prigozhin thinks all of Russia could be lost? (video with English subs)


https://twitter.com/DylanBurns1776/s...51213608853507

That’s a standard Russian propaganda line - the ‘existential threat’ Russia is fighting against. Basically they want their population to think they’re in a war against Nato that has essentially been plotted by the UK, financed by the USA and fought by Ukraine.

The way things are right now Ukraine certainly has a very good chance of restoring its 1991 borders (i.e. getting Crimea back as well as those parts of the Donbas invaded by Russia in 2014).

The Russian Federation itself could, in the medium term, go the same way as the USSR did. Some commentators have seized on Pregozhin’s admission that Wagner alone lost 20,000 fighting in Bakhmut just over the last 6 months. The entire USSR lost 15,000 in Afghanistan in 10 years. Those losses were borne by a total population of more than 300,000, while Russia today has 140,000.

Russia is facing profound demographic and economic upheaval for years, and when that starts causing unrest in its provinces, it will realise that it no longer has an effective army to put down rebellion. If you’re a separatist in Siberia or anywhere else far from Moscow, this is a very good time to be making plans. So in that sense Russia itself could be ‘lost’, but no, not as a direct result of Ukrainian or Nato invasion.

Makes you proud they think we're the brains behind the operation.

Originally Posted by Damien

Makes you proud they think we're the brains behind the operation.

I'm starting to think that EON Productions is a front organisation for MI6, running the most successful psy-op of all time.

Meanwhile in Russia

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by Chris

I'm starting to think that EON Productions is a front organisation for MI6, running the most successful psy-op of all time.

A good one! respect!

It should be noted that the environmental and societal impact of Russia blowing the Nova Kakhovka dam last night will be extremely long lasting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65818705

Russia has become an unstable terrorist state led by someone whose sanity must be in question. Troubling times indeed.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Chris

It should be noted that the environmental and societal impact of Russia blowing the Nova Kakhovka dam last night will be extremely long lasting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65818705

Russia has become an unstable terrorist state led by someone whose sanity must be in question. Troubling times indeed.

More genocide?

The Russians refuse to evacuate the population in the occupied territories that are being flooded.

Over 40 thousand people are in danger of being flooded. Ukrainian authorities are evacuating over 17,000 people. Unfortunately, over 25,000 civilians are on the territory under Russian control. And the occupiers are not carrying out evacuation. This is yet another blatant disregard for human life and international law.

Originally Posted by pip08456

More genocide?

The Russians refuse to evacuate the population in the occupied territories that are being flooded.

Over 40 thousand people are in danger of being flooded. Ukrainian authorities are evacuating over 17,000 people. Unfortunately, over 25,000 civilians are on the territory under Russian control. And the occupiers are not carrying out evacuation. This is yet another blatant disregard for human life and international law.

The Russians are also continuing to shell areas where Ukrainian authorities are trying to conduct evacuations.

I have to admit I am having a hard time understanding this sickness in the Russian soul. It is too easy to blame all of this on a few deranged lunatics in Moscow - there is complicity all the way down the chain of command.

I am having an equally hard time understanding the bothsidesing coming out of the BBC all day today. It is perfectly capable of throwing weasel words into its reports when it wants to (usually when reporting on a government initiative, and the correspondent will finish their piece to camera with a sentence such as “Even so, many will wonder whether [initiative X] really will solve this growing crisis”). Yet today, while - eventually - starting to phrase its reports so as to give more prominence to Ukrainian claims, they are still presented as claims, and the Russian narrative is offered uncritically and without any context at all (such as their demonstrable track record of lying and disinformation).

There is chatter this evening that the US gov has intel that pretty much proves Russia did it and is working on getting as much of it as it can declassified so it can be shared. That would be welcome, but shouldn’t be necessary, when Zelensky is on record late last year claiming that Russia had already mined the dam, and a bunch of idiot Russian solders are already on record as claiming too have been the ones who did it.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Chris

The Russians are also continuing to shell areas where Ukrainian authorities are trying to conduct evacuations.

I have to admit I am having a hard time understanding this sickness in the Russian soul. It is too easy to blame all of this on a few deranged lunatics in Moscow - there is complicity all the way down the chain of command.

.

I do not understand it but I do expect it. During WWII they often shot their own troops who were sent into battle virtually unarmed. They killed an estimated 150000 of their own 15000 during Battle of Stalingrad of alone