Updated: Boris resigns as party leader

[Julian]

Suella Braverman eliminated from the candidates for next PM.

How nice of the vile rigby on sly news to refer to Kemi Badenoch as "The dark horse"

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Julian

Suella Braverman eliminated from the candidates for next PM.

How nice of the vile rigby on sly news to refer to Kemi Badenoch as "The dark horse"

Oh dear. Sky are usually good at being woke too.

Originally Posted by jfman

The 28 day count doesn’t apply to the death certificates - whoever writes I it up has to have cause to record it as a factor in their death.

It still matters and yes the 28 day was included in statistics, it matters because 200,000 people did not just die of Covid alone, other serious mitigating factors necessitate a requirement to correct the record that significantly less people died of just COVID as per the stats from the ONS.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

It still matters and yes the 28 day was included in statistics, it matters because 200,000 people did not just die of Covid alone, other serious mitigating factors necessitate a requirement to correct the record that significantly less people died of just COVID as per the stats from the ONS.

We can agree to disagree but it’s a different metric, just as excess deaths is a different metric, suspected Covid is a different metric.

The 28 day count doesn’t relate to the death certs - even still 180,000 is the figure there.

Nobody would claim nobody has ever died of HIV or AIDS because it’s pneumonia that usually gets them or other condition arising from immunodeficiency that they wouldn’t have had without HIV/AIDS.

Minimising the impact of COVID to only those who died as a result of COVID alone is absurd - as demonstrated by the extremely low figures of such cases.

I’ll say no more on it as the level of detail is veering off topic.

[007stuart]

Originally Posted by Mick

Erroneous figure

Ok let's look at the level of deaths throughout Europe with stats produced by the World Health Organisation. Only Russia has a greater number deaths recorded and you can understand why given the size of population and I think it's safe to the UK can't claim to have the second largest population size in Europe

Still think he handled the Pandemic well?

Originally Posted by 007stuart

Ok let's look at the level of deaths throughout Europe with stats produced by the World Health Organisation. Only Russia has a greater number deaths recorded and you can understand why given the size of population and I think it's safe to the UK can't claim to have the second largest population size in Europe

Still think he handled the Pandemic well?

I wasn’t disputing his success or not, I was disputing the death toll of 200,000 as not a accurate figure and I stand by it, given true ONS stats show, less than 20K have died of COVID.

[007stuart]

Originally Posted by Mick

I wasn’t disputing his success or not, I was disputing the death toll of 200,000 as not a accurate figure and I stand by it, given true ONS stats show, less than 20K have died of COVID.

So what's your point?

Originally Posted by 007stuart

So what's your point?

Um, are you being deliberately obtuse?

Your 200K Covid Death figure is erroneous, for reasons already explained.

[007stuart]

Show me where the stats I posted said of COVID and then justify your comment Erroneous figure.

You chose to quote stats that focus on one specific area, some people may think that you're trying deflect attention from the main point of my argument that actions taken by the government led by Boris Johnstone were not reasonable as evidenced by the figures I quoted.

Perhaps it's you that's being obtuse?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 007stuart

Show me where the stats I posted said of COVID and then justify your comment Erroneous figure.

You posted a graph that shows deaths with COVID as the cause of death on the death certificate. That is “ of COVID”. This has already been evidenced to be a highly inaccurate metric, as Mick pointed out.

It’s a matter of public record that a very high % of people with COVID on their death certificate did not die purely of COVID. There is a massive grey area. But the fact remains 200,000 is an erroneous figure.

Originally Posted by 007stuart

Show me where the stats I posted said of COVID and then justify your comment Erroneous figure.

You chose to quote stats that focus on one specific area, some people may think that you're trying deflect attention from the main point of my argument that actions taken by the government led by Boris Johnstone were not reasonable as evidenced by the figures I quoted.

Perhaps it's you that's being obtuse?

You posted a blanket statement saying “if you think 200,000 is acceptable”

200,000 have not died of Covid, this is not a specific area, it is a matter of scientific and biological principle, you cannot add a deaths tally which includes other causes linked to the deaths and just say, that amount died of covid, it’s not a factual statement, they have died with it but they had other mitigating conditions which contributed to their deaths and that these also would have been put on their death certificates.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

You posted a graph that shows deaths with COVID as the cause of death on the death certificate. That is “ of COVID”.

So neither he, nor the graph, actually said “of COVID” despite your dubious use of quotation marks?

[007stuart]

So you also think less than 20.000 people died of COVID, really?

Normal NHS services were effectively suspended for over 2 years for 20,000 COVID deaths? Take a moment just to think about that. Tens of thousands of routine operations cancelled because of an extra 196 deaths every week that are a result of COVID, that's what you are saying if you believe the figures previously quoted. Look at where the source data comes from for the figure I quoted, it is from the ONS. i.e. the UK Government.

Perhaps you both should take a look at this page:

https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2022/01/26/t...ly-misleading/.

Hopefully you'll realise that blindly quoting figures without doing research is a recipe for disaster.

I have proven my figures are taken from reputable sources as I did my research before posting and the article above disproves your assertion that no more than 20000 people died of COVID

Originally Posted by 007stuart

So you also think less than 20.000 people died of COVID, really?

Normal NHS services were effectively suspended for over 2 years for 20,000 COVID deaths? Take a moment just to think about that. Tens of thousands of routine operations cancelled because of an extra 196 deaths every week that are a result of COVID, that's what you are saying if you believe the figures previously quoted. Look at where the source data comes from for the figure I quoted, it is from the ONS. i.e. the UK Government.

Perhaps you both should take a look at this page:

https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2022/01/26/t...ly-misleading/.

Hopefully you'll realise that blindly quoting figures without doing research is a recipe for disaster.

I have proven my figures are taken from reputable sources as I did my research before posting and the article above disproves your assertion that no more than 20000 people died of COVID

I’m well aware of the issues in the NHS, given it’s part of the health service I work for.

It does no such thing because I got my earlier figures, highlighting Covid as the one “singular cause of death”, also from ONS. So no, I didn’t just blindly follow figures, another erroneous claim from you.

You assume a lot of rubbish don’t you, I don’t think of anything less of the 20K that have died, each death is tragic, but it is a far better number than 200K, which is not a correct figure of pure COVID deaths. It is misleading to say 200K died of Covid, when they did not. They had other contributors that led to their deaths, those who died of cancer, but tested positive of covid, was a statistic added to covid deaths, even though it was the cancer which actually killed them.

[TheDaddy]

Before anyone falls out, I'm sure I'm not saying anything we don't already know but the easiest way to get a rough idea of the genuine figure is to check the pre covid ONS figures for deaths and compare them to now, for the record I'd say it's any where between 20k and 200k