Updated: Boris resigns as party leader - Page 116

**Maggy** · 20-04-2022, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx

The nature of the crime is not the issue here, it was the response to it. It seems like Boris Johnsons response to all of this is that he didn't understand the rules which throws in to question his competence and governance. He stood in front of TV cameras and told us all the rules but seemingly didn't understand them himself. That is worrying when he is supposedly in charge of the country.

The other possibility is that he did understand the rules and didn't care and tried to cover it up. That would suggest that the rules are for us and not for him which is incredibly arrogant.

Boris Johnson is either not competent to lead the country or hold such disrespect for the public and Parliament that he shouldn't lead. This has nothing to do with Brexit, COVID or anything else, it's about the person we trust to lead the country. If they are not fit to lead, they should go.

Pierre · 20-04-2022, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

the longer he remains in power, the sooner Labour gets into power.

I haven’t seen any evidence to back that up

1andrew1 · 20-04-2022, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

I haven’t seen any evidence to back that up

Check out the polls.

---------- Post added at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx

The nature of the crime is not the issue here, it was the response to it. It seems like Boris Johnsons response to all of this is that he didn't understand the rules which throws in to question his competence and governance. He stood in front of TV cameras and told us all the rules but seemingly didn't understand them himself. That is worrying when he is supposedly in charge of the country.

The other possibility is that he did understand the rules and didn't care and tried to cover it up. That would suggest that the rules are for us and not for him which is incredibly arrogant.

Boris Johnson is either not competent to lead the country or hold such disrespect for the public and Parliament that he shouldn't lead. This has nothing to do with Brexit, COVID or anything else, it's about the person we trust to lead the country. If they are not fit to lead, they should go.

Great post and clearly explained.

Sephiroth · 20-04-2022, 10:20

Jon is sort of correct. His either/or analysis is bang on.

Whether or not he is unfit to lead the country is the big debate. He has certainly shown leadership on three great issues. I don't think that breaking the Covid rules merits that he walks the plank even if he made the rules that he broke.

But he's not spoken the truth to Parliament and although it was on a minor transgression, he laid himself open to the savaging he is receiving because he broke his own rules.

So, ultimately he has to go because otherwise the electorate will do that job. It's just that now is not the right time and the Opposition need to reach an accommodation with the Government.

1andrew1 · 20-04-2022, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Jon is sort of correct. His either/or analysis is bang on.

Whether or not he is unfit to lead the country is the big debate. He has certainly shown leadership on three great issues. I don't think that breaking the Covid rules merits that he walks the plank even if he made the rules that he broke.

But he's not spoken the truth to Parliament and although it was on a minor transgression, he laid himself open to the savaging he is receiving because he broke his own rules.

So, ultimately he has to go because otherwise the electorate will do that job. It's just that now is not the right time and the Opposition need to reach an accommodation with the Government.

There's never a good time. Johnson's latest trick is to use this line in the hope that people forget about partygate.

**Chris** · 20-04-2022, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Jon is sort of correct. His either/or analysis is bang on.

Whether or not he is unfit to lead the country is the big debate. He has certainly shown leadership on three great issues. I don't think that breaking the Covid rules merits that he walks the plank even if he made the rules that he broke.

But he's not spoken the truth to Parliament and although it was on a minor transgression, he laid himself open to the savaging he is receiving because he broke his own rules.

So, ultimately he has to go because otherwise the electorate will do that job. It's just that now is not the right time and the Opposition need to reach an accommodation with the Government.

A person can be an effective decision maker whilst being of dubious moral character, most of the time at least. The problem arises where a the need of an effective decision intersects with the need for sound ethical decision making. Arguably of course there’s always an ethical component to good governance but it comes to the fore in some places more than others. Leading a government that thinks it’s a good idea to transport asylum applicants to Rwanda, for example. Or trying to ensure that truly insane levels of bureaucracy don’t stand in the way of Ukrainians coming to the UK. That’s why Archbishop Justin Welby was absolutely right to use his Easter address to put the ethical boot in and why it is so troubling that some politicians got so shrill at the very idea of being criticised by someone whose job it is to reflect the teachings of someone who had plenty to say about the moral qualifications of leaders.

Beyond that, whether someone is of good character simply matters. The rest of the world sees us through our leaders, especially when those leaders have democratic legitimacy. Keeping him on will eventually start to reflect badly on all of us.

papa smurf · 20-04-2022, 11:11

Why is no one giving the same amount of grief to Rishi, he got a fixed penalty notice for the same breach of regulations.

Carth · 20-04-2022, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

I haven’t seen any evidence to back that up

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Check out the polls.

oh stop it Andrew, you're killing me

Sephiroth · 20-04-2022, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Why is no one giving the same amount of grief to Rishi, he got a fixed penalty notice for the same breach of regulations.

I suspect that he's (a) not the organ grinder; (b) not a buffoon; (c) finished anyway.

Rishi is not fit to be PM; one foot in the USA and one foot invested in his wife, who has 1½ feet in Indian and ½ a foot in the UK. He is fit to be Chancellor, though even though we might not all agree on all of his fiscal measures.

BenMcr · 20-04-2022, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Why is no one giving the same amount of grief to Rishi, he got a fixed penalty notice for the same breach of regulations.

Although I'm not a fan and think he should have questions asked about his behaviour, what statements has he made where he said he didn't break the law before he was then fined for breaking the law?

papa smurf · 20-04-2022, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Although I'm not a fan and think he should have questions asked about his behaviour, what statements has he made where he said he didn't break the law before he was then fined for breaking the law?

https://www.indy100.com/news/rishi-s...ckdown-parties

**Damien** · 20-04-2022, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

I haven’t seen any evidence to back that up

The polls have been pretty consistent for a while now. Not just Johnson's approval numbers which are terrible, or Labour's lead which has been there for a while now but also the underlying numbers on issues like the economy and the NHS.

Recent by-elections haven't been kind to them either.

I think the scale of seats Starmer needs to win back to win a majority is too much in one election but the Tories are remarkably complacent in assuming the polls will simply revert back and they'll win. They should learn from how close 2017 was to not take things for granted.

1andrew1 · 20-04-2022, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

The polls have been pretty consistent for a while now. Not just Johnson's approval numbers which are terrible, or Labour's lead which has been there for a while now but also the underlying numbers on issues like the economy and the NHS.

Recent by-elections haven't been kind to them either.

I think the scale of seats Starmer needs to win back to win a majority is too much in one election but the Tories are remarkably complacent in assuming the polls will simply revert back and they'll win. They should learn from how close 2017 was to not take things for granted.

This poll is currently making headlines.

Quote:

JL Partners
In today’s Times, we asked a nationally representative sample of the British public what they think about Boris Johnson.

Of all 2,000 responses, 72% were negative, with 16% positive. The words most commonly used are in the image below.

Some of the negatives (72% of total):

“He was the right person to get Brexit done but now he needs to go. He is a liar and has broken the law we need a change.”

“I used to think he was ok but now he should resign after the breach of lockdown.”

“Unprintable. I have always voted Conservative but this Prime minister is a disgrace in so many ways.”

https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/...36769841242122

1andrew1 · 20-04-2022, 16:56

The UK is forecast to be the worse-performing G7 nation in 2023, behind France. It's easier to change the Prime Minister than it is the economy. And Labour is now ahead on the economy.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ions-imf-warns

richard-john56 · 20-04-2022, 22:04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMfG3sMo34s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mclNm9Igl1o