Britain outside the EU

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

I get the feeling that's it's not just the EU that you don't like about Europe.

I like Europe and am a frequent, respectful visitor. There are two things in particular about the EU that I don't like in relation to the UK:

1/
The Commission's creeping drive towards federalisation. We are free from that now and there will be no rules dictation by Brussels (or Berlin/Paris) any more.

2/
The power broking stuff that goes on in the EU. Hitherto, it had been led by Germany with France as its running dog (the governments, that would be rather than the people). With Merkel gone, Macron is sticking his chest out. Anything the French government does in terms of bashing the UK, is with Macrons blessing if not instigation. The vaccine business in particular has entrenched my total dislike of Macron and his anti-UK actions.

FYI, I would have been quite happy to remain in the EU but for its "ever closer union" mantra. I was in favour of freedom of movement. I thought we'd been stitched up on fishing and to a certain extent on agriculture, which is totally skewed in France's favour. But overall, as an association of trading states with harmonisation of standards, I would have been content.

I think you misunderstand me.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's probably more to do with the election coming up in the spring and Macron needing to show strength against us over fishing and also the virus itself. If France was really simply worried about the COVID cases they would ban travelling from America as well.

Fair point although do the numbers compare: UK v. US?

Originally Posted by Hugh

Your obsession is getting a little concerning…

And your obsessions isn’t?

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:04 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

It's probably more to do with the election coming up in the spring and Macron needing to show strength against us over fishing and also the virus itself. If France was really simply worried about the COVID cases they would ban travelling from America as well.

Bang on.

[jfman]

Random question.

The Mail on Sunday have a question in the poll they published today.

“Do you trust Boris to get Brexit done?”
Yes 43. No 48.

When is Brexit considered “done”?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by jfman

Random question.

The Mail on Sunday have a question in the poll they published today.

“Do you trust Boris to get Brexit done?”
Yes 43. No 48.

When is Brexit considered “done”?

It'll be on a Tuesday.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Random question.

The Mail on Sunday have a question in the poll they published today.

“Do you trust Boris to get Brexit done?”
Yes 43. No 48.

When is Brexit considered “done”?

I guess Brexit will be done when we have dealt with all the transitional problems we are experiencing and we’ve cleared away all those bureaucratic EU laws which threaten to stifle our economy.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I guess Brexit will be done when we have dealt with all the transitional problems we are experiencing and we’ve cleared away all those bureaucratic EU laws which threaten to stifle our economy.

Which laws in particular are you referring to? If you class them as 'stifling' then you must be aware of what specifically they 'stifle'?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

Random question.

The Mail on Sunday have a question in the poll they published today.

“Do you trust Boris to get Brexit done?”
Yes 43. No 48.

When is Brexit considered “done”?

Negotiations with the EU will always happen though at some stage people will stop calling it Brexit.

The last bit of added Brexit bureaucracy seems to be on 1 November so perhaps after that, the term will reduce in use? [Graphic: FT.com]

[jfman]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Negotiations with the EU will always happen though at some stage people will stop calling it Brexit.

The last bit of added Brexit bureaucracy seems to be on 1 November so perhaps after that, the term will reduce in use? [Graphic: FT.com]

I’m not really worried about the terminology. It just strikes me as somewhat odd (and perhaps dangerous) to have a seemingly ethereal concept hanging over the Prime Minister, his successor and presumably subsequent holders of the post. What do these 48% (plus presumably a subset of the 43% who don’t think the PM has delivered but trust him to do so) of people want/need to see?

I’m not convinced the added paperwork of export health certificates is the answer. OB has alluded to a transitionary period - something I don’t consider unreasonable in and of itself - but what event heralds the end of the transition and acceptance that this is no longer a transition it is indeed the post-Brexit present? Or in the absence of a definition does it become a get out of free card for this and subsequent Governments that the big bad European bogeyman won’t let us deliver.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I guess Brexit will be done when we have dealt with all the transitional problems we are experiencing and we’ve cleared away all those bureaucratic EU laws which threaten to stifle our economy.

Not in our lifetime then.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m not really worried about the terminology. It just strikes me as somewhat odd (and perhaps dangerous) to have a seemingly ethereal concept hanging over the Prime Minister, his successor and presumably subsequent holders of the post. What do these 48% (plus presumably a subset of the 43% who don’t think the PM has delivered but trust him to do so) of people want/need to see?

I’m not convinced the added paperwork of export health certificates is the answer. OB has alluded to a transitionary period - something I don’t consider unreasonable in and of itself - but what event heralds the end of the transition and acceptance that this is no longer a transition it is indeed the post-Brexit present? Or in the absence of a definition does it become a get out of free card for this and subsequent Governments that the big bad European bogeyman won’t let us deliver.

I don’t see the value in defining it by date or a particular event. We will know we have all our ducks in a row - current issues such as the NI border and fishing resolved, EU laws replaced, new-style trade deals in place with services an integral part of them, and businesses taking advantage of the new environment to make up for and exceed the initial losses incurred with separation.

We will know it when we see it.

---------- Post added at 16:26 ---------- Previous post was at 16:17 ----------

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Which laws in particular are you referring to? If you class them as 'stifling' then you must be aware of what specifically they 'stifle'?

How can you doubt it? You want to try reading some EU Directives and ask yourself how you would comply with them all if you were running a business.

We were faced with having to take an extra lawyers where I worked before to negotiate our way through very complicated EU legislation, and there was a lack of certainty about the conclusion reached on whether or not actions we took were ‘safe’ legally because the ECJ often went beyond what was actually required by law when making its judgements. The Acquired Rights Directive was a nightmare to apply when staff were transferring from one company to another.

There is a piece in today’s Telegraph about how much better the City will be able to operate as it frees itself from EU rules.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...roker-finncap/

[EXTRACT]

The head of the City broker FinnCap has said Brexit has been a boost to the Square Mile as it has allowed regulators to ditch EU red tape.

Sam Smith, chief executive of the London-listed business, said more money is going into UK growth companies than ever before and the City is working “very well”, despite warnings that it would lose business and jobs to the Continent following Britain’s break with Brussels.

“To me, Brexit has not been anything other than quite positive ... we are seeing signs that actually the regulatory regime could be changed in a positive way post-Brexit to really make this ecosystem fly,” she said.

The comments came as new research from EY found that fears of a mass exodus of City workers failed to materialise as the flow of bankers and traders moving to the EU went into reverse this year.

Hundreds of thousands of jobs were said to be at risk if the UK voted to leave. However, the exodus has been far lower than expected with fewer than 10,000 workers thought to have relocated.

Separately, the City watchdog implemented a set of sweeping reforms of London’s listing rules in December as regulators seek to make the City more attractive to fast-growing firms.

As part of the overhaul, the Financial Conduct Authority slashed free float requirements for listed companies in a bid to lure a new generation of start-ups to the London Stock Exchange.

It also permitted firms with dual-class share structures to claim places in the leading share indices and draw on a wider pool of investors including tracker funds.

Ms Smith said: “We have had a great funding environment, there is lots of investment coming into the UK, there is money to back startups and scale up businesses. And that’s continued to come from overseas, which has gotten much better since Brexit.”

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don’t see the value in defining it by date or a particular event.

So for decades, election after election, PM after PM, governments could blame Brexit for their own inadequacies?

Come on OB you know that’s a preposterous position. Is there a list of laws to be replaced, a list of trade deals by which success or failure is gauged? Would the 48%+ even agree on what that looks like?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

So for decades, election after election, PM after PM, governments could blame Brexit for their own inadequacies?

Come on OB you know that’s a preposterous position. Is there a list of laws to be replaced, a list of trade deals by which success or failure is gauged? Would the 48%+ even agree on what that looks like?

Why would it take decades? That’s the view of pessimistic remainers.

I doubt we will still be talking about Brexit in five years’ time, as long as the PM is not diverted from his mission.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Why would it take decades? That’s the view of pessimistic remainers.

I doubt we will still be talking about Brexit in five years’ time, as long as the PM is not diverted from his mission.

It was you who said you saw little value in defining a timeframe, not me.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don’t see the value in defining it by date or a particular event. We will know we have all our ducks in a row - current issues such as the NI border and fishing resolved, EU laws replaced, new-style trade deals in place with services an integral part of them, and businesses taking advantage of the new environment to make up for and exceed the initial losses incurred with separation.

We will know it when we see it.

---------- Post added at 16:26 ---------- Previous post was at 16:17 ----------



How can you doubt it? You want to try reading some EU Directives and ask yourself how you would comply with them all if you were running a business.

We were faced with having to take an extra lawyers where I worked before to negotiate our way through very complicated EU legislation, and there was a lack of certainty about the conclusion reached on whether or not actions we took were ‘safe’ legally because the ECJ often went beyond what was actually required by law when making its judgements. The Acquired Rights Directive was a nightmare to apply when staff were transferring from one company to another.

There is a piece in today’s Telegraph about how much better the City will be able to operate as it frees itself from EU rules.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...roker-finncap/

[EXTRACT]

The head of the City broker FinnCap has said Brexit has been a boost to the Square Mile as it has allowed regulators to ditch EU red tape.

Sam Smith, chief executive of the London-listed business, said more money is going into UK growth companies than ever before and the City is working “very well”, despite warnings that it would lose business and jobs to the Continent following Britain’s break with Brussels.

“To me, Brexit has not been anything other than quite positive ... we are seeing signs that actually the regulatory regime could be changed in a positive way post-Brexit to really make this ecosystem fly,” she said.

The comments came as new research from EY found that fears of a mass exodus of City workers failed to materialise as the flow of bankers and traders moving to the EU went into reverse this year.

Hundreds of thousands of jobs were said to be at risk if the UK voted to leave. However, the exodus has been far lower than expected with fewer than 10,000 workers thought to have relocated.

Separately, the City watchdog implemented a set of sweeping reforms of London’s listing rules in December as regulators seek to make the City more attractive to fast-growing firms.

As part of the overhaul, the Financial Conduct Authority slashed free float requirements for listed companies in a bid to lure a new generation of start-ups to the London Stock Exchange.

It also permitted firms with dual-class share structures to claim places in the leading share indices and draw on a wider pool of investors including tracker funds.

Ms Smith said: “We have had a great funding environment, there is lots of investment coming into the UK, there is money to back startups and scale up businesses. And that’s continued to come from overseas, which has gotten much better since Brexit.”

Wow, that takes us back 40 years…

From the employees viewpoint, the Acquired Rights Directive (Inc. TUPE) was a very good thing.