Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I can’t believe that, Major being such a supporter of Brexit and the current government, how can he say these things?

Highy usual for Major to intervene in such a way.

[nffc]

Major has never liked Johnson and tried to veto his selections as an MP in the early days.


Let's not bear a grudge eh?

---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

I can’t believe that, Major being such a supporter of Brexit and the current government, how can he say these things?

John Major wasn't a Eurosceptic, at least not in the years he was in power.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by daveeb

He wasn't talking about Brexit. Maybe he just doesn't like the way populist governments operate, and who can blame him.

All roads lead to brexit, bozo and his chums believe "delivering" it has given them a get out of jail free card for pretty much anything, our trade losses are 178 times greater than our gains and no one bats an eyelid, we are now exporting beef and pork carcasses to Holland and Ireland because we have no butchers or meat processors here, adds £1500 per trailer to the costs and adds a load of paperwork both of which we were told were going to be slashed and no one says a word let alone attempts to hold anyone accountable

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

All roads lead to brexit, bozo and his chums believe "delivering" it has given them a get out of jail free card for pretty much anything, our trade losses are 178 times greater than our gains and no one bats an eyelid, we are now exporting beef and pork carcasses to Holland and Ireland because we have no butchers or meat processors here, adds £1500 per trailer to the costs and adds a load of paperwork both of which we were told were going to be slashed and no one says a word let alone attempts to hold anyone accountable

But just think, in 50 years or so everything may come good if man of the people Rees Mogg is correct. Something to celebrate

[jonbxx]

We were discussing this weekend if there was a trade war, what would hurt the UK most? I think from a political point of view, big fat tariffs on cars would do the trick. For my business, it would be data equivalency. Not being able to handle personally identifiable data of EU citizens would shut down most of our customer service/orders department which is based in the UK in a shot. We would need to fly customer service reps out and house them in the EU for order processing. That's nearly 100 people, leaving only a few who would handle UK and non-EEA orders. Yikes!

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I can’t believe that, Major being such a supporter of Brexit and the current government, how can he say these things?

Originally Posted by daveeb

He wasn't talking about Brexit. Maybe he just doesn't like the way populist governments operate, and who can blame him.

Originally Posted by nffc

Major has never liked Johnson and tried to veto his selections as an MP in the early days.


Let's not bear a grudge eh?

---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:15 ----------


John Major wasn't a Eurosceptic, at least not in the years he was in power.

Originally he was for a referendum but against leaving. He's then called out the issues after the vote that he feels are damaging to the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ver-leaving-eu

Sir John Major has said it is wrong to flirt with leaving the European Union at a time when the world is coming together.

The former prime minister’s remarks might be taken as a warning to David Cameron not to push too hard the threat to leave the EU when he attends a two-day summit in Brussels at which Britain will press its renegotiated terms for staying in the bloc.

But Major said he was not giving advice to Cameron and thought it was right to hold a referendum to clear the air and “end this long-running and tiresome debate”.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

We were discussing this weekend if there was a trade war, what would hurt the UK most? I think from a political point of view, big fat tariffs on cars would do the trick. For my business, it would be data equivalency. Not being able to handle personally identifiable data of EU citizens would shut down most of our customer service/orders department which is based in the UK in a shot. We would need to fly customer service reps out and house them in the EU for order processing. That's nearly 100 people, leaving only a few who would handle UK and non-EEA orders. Yikes!

Not wishing to contradict Jon (in other words his assessment is correct), this is the crunch point. Are we to be subject to EU rules, whims and policies or not?

Is the undoing of 45 years of business integration with the EU too important to jeopardise? How tough a time are we in for while we adjust? I side with the sovereignty argument and we should have planned from day 1 of Brexit for a clean break and made plans accordingly.

I blame the mess we are in on Mrs. May because we were effectively screwed when we agreed to their negotiation sequencing. Now Boris, a total buffoon, has to find a way out that doesn’t destroy our economy. Realistically, NI is sacrificeable in these circumstances.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Originally he was for a referendum but against leaving. He's then called out the issues after the vote that he feels are damaging to the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ver-leaving-eu

To be fair I think that a fair few people who initially voted to remain would be in favour of leaving after seeing how the EU behaved in negotiations etc. But then, on the other hand, you'd probably see a fair few the other way round wanting to remain after seeing what a mess leaving is looking like...


The issue with the tories is that a lot of high profile MPs or former MPs were fundamentally in favour of leaving where a lot of them also were in favour of remaining, the split has been going on for years (and probably didn't help Major's government either) which is why they had difficulty going through the WA until May quit. When Labour basically vote with the whip it does make the job harder.



I think also some people are expecting results overnight whereas we lose access to the single market and what the EU can get us (and vice versa) and then have to do this for ourselves, we have the trade deal with the EU, and other countries, but these take time to work on - like presumably the EU's deals did initially. It's going to take a few years to sort out.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Not wishing to contradict Jon (in other words his assessment is correct), this is the crunch point. Are we to be subject to EU rules, whims and policies or not?

Is the undoing of 45 years of business integration with the EU too important to jeopardise? How tough a time are we in for while we adjust? I side with the sovereignty argument and we should have planned from day 1 of Brexit for a clean break and made plans accordingly.

I blame the mess we are in on Mrs. May because we were effectively screwed when we agreed to their negotiation sequencing. Now Boris, a total buffoon, has to find a way out that doesn’t destroy our economy. Realistically, NI is sacrificeable in these circumstances.

Can you define what you mean by sacrificing NI. Sacrificing it to the Single Market and accepting a sea border? Or something more drastic?

---------- Post added at 09:56 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

We were discussing this weekend if there was a trade war, what would hurt the UK most? I think from a political point of view, big fat tariffs on cars would do the trick. For my business, it would be data equivalency. Not being able to handle personally identifiable data of EU citizens would shut down most of our customer service/orders department which is based in the UK in a shot. We would need to fly customer service reps out and house them in the EU for order processing. That's nearly 100 people, leaving only a few who would handle UK and non-EEA orders. Yikes!

Crikey! I can see this being built into companies' risk assessments when considering investing in the UK now, which is not a good thing.

I think whilst the unelected Frost may be a bit of an ideologist, Johnson is elected, and more of a realist and wouldn't want to risk such an outcome. That assumes he is aware of outcomes like this and doesn't choose to call it Project Fear or blame business for not preparing for it.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Crikey! I can see this being built into companies' risk assessments when considering investing in the UK now, which is not a good thing.

Yeah, I am trying to find out where all of our customer data is currently held. This would be for our ordering system and sales and marketing system. If the data is held in the EU, then it would be a big problem as we would just need to shift people who have access to the data abroad. If the data is held in the UK, then this would be a VERY big problem as we would need to shift the data AND the people.

I look after the UK and one EU country. Most of my work is that EU country, reflected the relative size of the industries there. Not quite sure how that would be managed.

That said, all hypothetical worst case stuff for a bit of an exercise...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Can you define what you mean by sacrificing NI. Sacrificing it to the Single Market and accepting a sea border? Or something more drastic?

---------- Post added at 09:56 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------

Need I define that? If NI was left to the EU, they won't be in any difficulty. Whereas ....

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Need I define that? If NI was left to the EU, they won't be in any difficulty. Whereas ....

I tend to live life by the saying, "if you assume, you make an ass out of you and me" hence I clarified.

That's quite a big sacrifice.

[Carth]

If N.I. decided to split from the UK and become part of the EU, would we still have these arguments about sea borders etc?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

If N.I. decided to split from the UK and become part of the EU, would we still have these arguments about sea borders etc?

They would be treated like the rest of the EU so there would be more checks than now which the Unionists would not like.

[nffc]

The issue is basically you have two factions in NI, One wants it united with the UK, one with the ROI, this has been an issue kept under wraps for ages, and is the issue here again...