Coronavirus

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Chris

<SNIP>

I agree that any moral system requires an anchor point, or a set of reasons *why* people should act in accordance with it. For most cultures, in most of history, some concept or other of deity usually provides that. In secularised Western Europe, vestigial attachment to those same ideas usually still lies behind it even though secularists prefer to deny this and construct alternative justifications for their moral systems. But it is still incorrect to equate secularism with lack of morality. It is possible to construct a basic, consequentialist ethical system without reference to any deity at all (not that I’d recommend doing so).

There we differ as to recommendation. Religion causes too many fights/wars/murders over which is the true deity.

Did a deity create Covid? But the design behind life seems to me to be too clever to have been mere evolution. So, to my mind, something must have designed all this - but is now dead.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There we differ as to recommendation. Religion causes too many fights/wars/murders over which is the true deity.

Did a deity create Covid? But the design behind life seems to me to be too clever to have been mere evolution. So, to my mind, something must have designed all this - but is now dead.

I’ve seen Prometheus. It wasn’t that good.

Philosophical question for you though: if a finite intelligence created life on Earth, what created that finite intelligence? “Deity” solves this problem by postulating a whole other class of existence, one that is fundamentally different to, and greater than, the created universe. In this other existence there is no beginning or ending - no birth and no death, which are attributes of the creation, not the creator.

Sorry we’re veering right off topic …. to try to bring it back, Chrisianity’s concept of the fall attributes imbalance in the entire ecosystem to humanity’s moral corruption. Thus in some way covid (and all viruses) are a consequence of human failing. Not the existence of viruses necessarily, but their tendency to damage or destroy host organisms rather than live harmoniously with them.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Did a deity create Covid? But the design behind life seems to me to be too clever to have been mere evolution. So, to my mind, something must have designed all this - but is now dead.

Remember that the odds of life happening are (probably) very, very low but the Universe has a near-infinite number of chances for it to happen. Plus evolution is almost the textbook case of survivorship bias.

Probably going a bit off-topic there though.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

Remember that the odds of life happening are (probably) very, very low but the Universe has a near-infinite number of chances for it to happen. Plus evolution is almost the textbook case of survivorship bias.

Probably going a bit off-topic there though.

Evolution of the virus maybe.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's some drunk guys who wanted a selfie with the guy off TV. It's stupid of them to accost someone like that, and intimidating, but I don't think they intended to hurt him. At one point you can ever hear them say 'Please, Sir' in the hope of a picture with him. It drunken, loutish, behaviour but let's not read that much into it other than Chris Witty probably does need some Government provided protection because had these been anti-vaxxers it could have been worse.

His father was murdered by terrorists who dragged him out of a car, everytime something like this happens his mind must go back and he wonder if history is about to repeat

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There we differ as to recommendation. Religion causes too many fights/wars/murders over which is the true deity.

I doubt there has ever been a war started solely over religion, it can be used to whip up zeal amongst the population for sure and encourage them to do foul deeds but in terms of actual causes it's always land, resources, power, treasure over religion, every time

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Evolution of the virus maybe.

Viruses are evolution in action

To repeat ...

Originally Posted by Hugh

Back on topic, please.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

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Did a deity create Covid?

If by Deity you mean Chinese scientist, then yes.

[Sephiroth]

The Torygraph has come up with an analysis that more or less mirrors what many of us think here. In a nutshell, the ratio of infections to tests as between now and December 2020 is 1/5.

Analysis: Skewed picture of scale of Covid pandemic

Covid case numbers are rising, but what is the story behind the figures? A Telegraph analysis shows that mass testing is giving a skewed picture of the pandemic, with community prevalence now five times lower than when the country had similar case numbers last year. Britain today recorded 20,479 cases, with the seven-day total increasing by 72pc. Looking at daily data, it might be assumed the country is now in a similar predicament to mid-December, when around 20,000 daily infections were reported. Yet almost three times the number of tests are now being performed each day. Science Editor Sarah Knapton reports how critics have called for the focus to be shifted to admissions and deaths - because vaccinations have broken the link between infections and healthcare needs.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's some drunk guys who wanted a selfie with the guy off TV. It's stupid of them to accost someone like that, and intimidating, but I don't think they intended to hurt him. At one point you can ever hear them say 'Please, Sir' in the hope of a picture with him. It drunken, loutish, behaviour but let's not read that much into it other than Chris Witty probably does need some Government provided protection because had these been anti-vaxxers it could have been worse.

You're wrong on that. An assault is an assault. You've no way of knowing the effect on the individual concerned.

[1andrew1]

Ministers consider keeping some Covid measures in England after July 19

Virus-free certification for large events and mask-wearing on public transport among potential curbs

Ministers are examining retaining some limited coronavirus measures in England — including offering organisers of large events the option of insisting on certificates for attendees to prove they are virus-free — as infections soared again but hospitalisations continued to lag far behind.

Sajid Javid, the new health secretary, told MPs on Monday that the country would have to “learn to live” with the virus as he declined to commit to lifting all remaining restrictions on July 19.

Officials close to discussions said that some measures could become a feature of life. These could include giving organisers of events such as festivals and theatres the choice to require a Covid-19 certificate, based on an existing NHS app, so ticket holders can show they have been double-jabbed or have had a recent negative test.

https://www.ft.com/content/4047f4cc-...b-e8fe85548a91

Not sure how popular that will be. The public will probably be fine if it's clear the restrictions are going one way, so July 19th sees another lifting of restrictions with masks on public transport staying for another few months.

The event thing won't fly for long though. Too slow to admit tens of thousands of people into a stadium if they have to check a QR code for COVID status.

Masks I think might be some a semi-casual fact of life for us as they are in Asia. It may become a cultural expectation that if you are ill you try to work from home and/or wear a mask when you go out.

[nomadking]

The Delta variant is nothing to worry about.
Australia

Despite these flaws, experts note that Delta is a "formidable foe" due to its high infection rates.
In New South Wales, of which Sydney is the state capital, officials are reporting near 100% household transmission compared to 25% for earlier strains. People there have caught the virus just from passing one another in a shop.
"Delta is just extremely, highly contagious. And even with the vaccinated workforce there's still potential to transmit," says Prof Nancy Baxter, head of the School of Population and Global Health at the University of Melbourne.
She points out that prior to the outbreak, officials had seen Delta cases where "they can't even identify how the transmission occurred".

Originally Posted by nomadking

The Delta variant is nothing to worry about.
Australia

If your population is vaccinated, the data shows that it isn’t. Australia’s problem isn’t the delta variant, it’s the lack of vaccines.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Chris

If your population is vaccinated, the data shows that it isn’t. Australia’s problem isn’t the delta variant, it’s the lack of vaccines.

My post was about the Delta variant, not Australia.
With near 100% household transmission and transmission from just passing by somebody(although probably without a mask), that is a serious matter.

Originally Posted by nomadking

My post was about the Delta variant, not Australia.
With near 100% household transmission and transmission from just passing by somebody(although probably without a mask), that is a serious matter.

*If* your population is vaccinated, it is not a serious matter. Viruses like measles have a vastly greater R rate than any covid variant. In an unvaccinated population that’s a big problem. In a vaccinated population it isn’t. The same principle applies here.

Australia’s problem is not the delta variant. Australia’s problem is it faces the delta variant largely unvaccinated.

Delta’s transmissibility, particularly that it is around twice as transmissible as the original Wuhan virus, is not news. Emerging data have been indicating this for a couple of weeks now.

(Edit) you can see this in action in this graph showing that the tight correlation between infections and hospitalisations in Scotland was broken in March. Hospitalisation simply isn’t rising with infection any more.



From: https://data.spectator.co.uk/