Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Such as? England is a lot less dependent on Scotland. It's not as if goods to/from the EU have to pass through Scotland. There would be complications with citizenship and the border, but once done that is it.

Scotland runs a deficit, even in the "good times", therefore there is no economic benefit from Scotland.

Anything Scotland needs from England, they would still need.

It's not mutually exclusive that all Scots that vote for the Union to remain, actually want the Union to remain. They are being pragmatic in that they get so many freebies as a result. Finally be brave enough to take away their unfair freebies, and see their attitudes change.
Spending money is easy, when you don't have to earn it.
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They just want to "earn" money by drilling under the sea, or by "plucking" it from the air.

Before you get to how things operate post separation, there is the separation itself to get through. Years of arguing, fighting, anti-Scot / anti-English sentiments it would just be a depressing and horrible time.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Before you get to how things operate post separation, there is the separation itself to get through. Years of arguing, fighting, anti-Scot / anti-English sentiments it would just be a depressing and horrible time.

As to opposed to now? There is no mechanism to be followed.

It's more a case of being anti the constant anti-English sentiment from the Scottish, rather than a straightforward anti-Scottish sentiment.

Still no examples of a longer-term downside, only upsides.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Before you get to how things operate post separation, there is the separation itself to get through. Years of arguing, fighting, anti-Scot / anti-English sentiments it would just be a depressing and horrible time.

Indeed, and where have we learnt that from !?

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by nomadking

As to opposed to now? There is no mechanism to be followed.

It's more a case of being anti the constant anti-English sentiment from the Scottish, rather than a straightforward anti-Scottish sentiment.

Still no examples of a longer-term downside, only upsides.

That doesn't apply to me or many others in Scotland who are pro the Union and do not dislike English people.

I’ve lived in Scotland more than half my adult life and never once experienced anti-English sentiment, even from those I know to be raving nats. . I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but that it’s overstated. Scottish nationalism is largely fuelled by a bizarre kind of deluded exceptionalism that has created a narrative in which Scotland has, amongst other things, never really been the home territory of an empire, and is somehow untainted by things the British empire did, like profit from slavery and tobacco plantations; and somehow had nothing to do with the British political system. It’s all English, and Scotland has always been an unwilling, or at best reluctant, passenger.

It’s nonsense of course - everything recognisable about our government and politics, even our entire concept of what a nation state is, was forged after the union, through the 18th and 19th centuries (as it was everywhere in Europe). Sit and listen to a Holyrood parliament debate with your eyes shut and you hear exactly the same British political debate being conducted as you do in Westminster.

Scottish nationalism is all about living in denial about Scotland’s fundamental connection to Britain and Britishness, while idolising an approved, sanitised version of Scotland’s cultural distinctiveness.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Chris

I’ve lived in Scotland more than half my adult life and never once experienced anti-English sentiment, even from those I know to be raving nats. . I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but that it’s overstated. Scottish nationalism is largely fuelled by a bizarre kind of deluded exceptionalism that has created a narrative in which Scotland has, amongst other things, never really been the home territory of an empire, and is somehow untainted by things the British empire did, like profit from slavery and tobacco plantations; and somehow had nothing to do with the British political system. It’s all English, and Scotland has always been an unwilling, or at best reluctant, passenger.

It’s nonsense of course - everything recognisable about our government and politics, even our entire concept of what a nation state is, was forged after the union, through the 18th and 19th centuries (as it was everywhere in Europe). Sit and listen to a Holyrood parliament debate with your eyes shut and you hear exactly the same British political debate being conducted as you do in Westminster.

Scottish nationalism is all about living in denial about Scotland’s fundamental connection to Britain and Britishness, while idolising an approved, sanitised version of Scotland’s cultural distinctiveness.

Well said sir.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Still no examples of a longer-term downside, only upsides.

Not everything is measured in pounds, shillings and pence.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not everything is measured in pounds, shillings and pence.

Still no examples of any sort, other than because it's a change.

Far too many existing separate arrangements with too many divergences, for it to be a sustainable situation.
Too many devolved powers, for which they are not held accountable.


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Prime Minister Boris Johnson has invited the leaders of the devolved nations to a summit on how "Team UK" can recover from the pandemic.

So who is representing England? Boris is to be there representing the UK as a whole, therefore none of the others are required.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Before you get to how things operate post separation, there is the separation itself to get through. Years of arguing, fighting, anti-Scot / anti-English sentiments it would just be a depressing and horrible time.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not everything is measured in pounds, shillings and pence.

I know we have our disagreements, but on this, total agreement

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not everything is measured in pounds, shillings and pence.

It's about a feeling isn't it and sovereignty, let them go it alone but imo they either do it or they shut up about it, I'd prefer them to leave tbh, that would be a proper brexit dividend for me and had I known this would be the result I'd have changed my vote to leave

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

It's about a feeling isn't it and sovereignty, let them go it alone but imo they either do it or they shut up about it, I'd prefer them to leave tbh, that would be a proper brexit dividend for me and had I known this would be the result I'd have changed my vote to leave

Can I ask why? I'm Scottish and pro the Union, like many thousands of other Scots.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

Can I ask why? I'm Scottish and pro the Union, like many thousands of other Scots.

We never hear your voice, even after winning a referendum we didn't hear people speaking for you, Sturgeon, Salmond and all the other fishy names have made careers making out Scotland was being kept against it's will and enough English people are fed up hearing it, so much so in fact if the snp held it's referendum here Scotland would be free of us.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I think green would look nicer personally.

Re: the pro-union vote, folks are assuming all Labour/ Lib voters would vote No in a referendum. When faced with being ruled by Boris from London, it only takes a small percentage of them to choose canny Nicola from Edinburgh instead.
Hence the paranoia about another vote: the unpopularity of the PM in Scotland could swing it.

Are you assuming that all those who voted SNP would vote yes, then?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Are you assuming that all those who voted SNP would vote yes, then?

Possibly OB, but not many as it's the SNPs main 'raison d'etre'.

However if you're right surely no harm in letting them have another vote? It's doomed to fail, isn't it ?

I get the impression Govts, aren't keen on referendums unless they are certain of the result. Recent history hasn't helped !

[1andrew1]

Maybe the UK government will enact some legislation to state that future referendums need a 2/3 majority to alter the status quo? And then happily have an independence referendum for Scotland?