Coronavirus - Page 143

papa smurf · 29-12-2020, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

We have had hospitals declaring critical incidents due to oxygen shortages. We have patients on trolleys, thirteen hour admission times (which means btw that ambulance crews cannot get back out where they’re needed as they have to legally stay with the patient until handed over)

We’re not far away from what’s happening to hospitals in LA County they’re now turning ambulances away

If the NHS gets overrun we are screwed

They could open the Nightingale hospitals or are they just ornamental.

jfman · 29-12-2020, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

They could open the Nightingale hospitals or are they just ornamental.

This has been covered - lack of staff to man them.

mrmistoffelees · 29-12-2020, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

All due to piss poor planning by the Government/ NHS.

It’s almost as though the NHS is under more pressure in the winter, who could have possibly predicted that the usual winter pressure the NHS experiences would be increased by a winter COVID spike........I mean who?......................

I don’t think it’s as simple as that but it holds a degree of responsibility I think things such as how many nhs staff are off sick/self isolating. Also, how many vacancies does the nhs have something like 38,000 of which 15,000 are nursing. Etc etc need to be factored in.

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

They could open the Nightingale hospitals or are they just ornamental.

And staff them with.....?

papa smurf · 29-12-2020, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I don’t think it’s as simple as that but it holds a degree of responsibility I think things such as how many nhs staff are off sick/self isolating. Also, how many vacancies does the nhs have something like 38,000 of which 15,000 are nursing. Etc etc need to be factored in.

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

And staff them with.....?

Well seeing as we aren't at war with anyone [significant] we could get the military/Defence Medical Services involved .

mrmistoffelees · 29-12-2020, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Well seeing as we aren't at war with anyone [significant] we could get the military/Defence Medical Services involved .

The defence medical personnel that already are working in NHS hospitals , as there hasn’t been designated military hospitals for fifteen years ?

The defence medical personnel that are already (where possible) working alongside frontline NHS staff ?

denphone · 29-12-2020, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

The defence medical personnel that already are working in NHS hospitals , as there hasn’t been designated military hospitals for fifteen years ?

The defence medical personnel that are already (where possible) working alongside frontline NHS staff ?

We have some defence medical personnel in our city hospital as the military hospital down here was closed in 1995.

mrmistoffelees · 29-12-2020, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone

We have some defence medical personnel in our city hospital as the military hospital down here was closed in 1995.

Yep, that was the last year there was a military hospital. St james cook uni hospital (Middlesbrough) is the same.

OLD BOY · 29-12-2020, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

We are paying the price now for not factoring schools into the circuit breakers.

That didn’t work in Wales so why would it work here?

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:54 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

The only way I can see that the NHS won’t collapse under the pressure, and to get the level of infections down is for there to be a total national lockdown, schools shut, all non essential retail, churches & sport the whole works, a curfew may well be needed as well

If we don’t we could be seeing 100,000 cases in approx three/four weeks time.

We don’t need to shut the schools if there’s testing at the school gates. The measures already in place have not had time to show results yet. Knee jerk reaction not required.

**Hugh** · 29-12-2020, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Well seeing as we aren't at war with anyone [significant] we could get the military/Defence Medical Services involved .

Posted earlier in this thread - in case you missed it.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...y#post36060237

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Doesn't the military have the required trained resources? Or at least a reasonable number?

This is a couple of years old, but problems roughly the same numbers

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0077.html

Quote:

Defence Nursing Staff

On operations, nursing staff and medical officers from all three services deliver primary and emergency care at the front line and secondary and critical care in field hospitals. Aeromed evacuation of casualties is supported by defence nurses who deliver intensive care nursing during patient transfers both in theatre and on return to the UK working within the Critical Care Air Support Teams.

When not deployed on operations, defence nurses work within Ministry of Defence Hospital Units within NHS Trusts across the UK to maintain their clinical skills and care for the general public. In particular, Defence Nurses working at the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine in Birmingham and at the Defence Medical Rehabilitation Centre at Headley Court contribute directly to the health care provision of military personnel.

Nursing staff for the three services (with approximate personnel figures) are found from the following organisations:

Queen Alexandra's Royal Naval Nursing Service (QARNNS) - 300
Queen Alexandra's Royal Army Nursing Corps (QARANC) - 800
Princess Mary's Royal Air Force Nursing Service (PMRAFNS) - 430

Around 1,500 nurses, most of whom are already doing other stuff...

During the Cold War, the Forces had quite a few of their own hospitals (both of my children from my first marriage were born at RAF Nocton Hall in Lincolnshire) - most of those no longer exist.

**Paul** · 29-12-2020, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Knee jerk reaction not required.

Why stop now, thats how its been working since the summer.

1andrew1 · 29-12-2020, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Posted earlier in this thread - in case you missed it.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...y#post36060237

I think the point of a military shadow NHS not being a thing is regularly made but the theory resurfaces more often than Only Fools and Horses on GOLD.

papa smurf · 29-12-2020, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Posted earlier in this thread - in case you missed it.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...y#post36060237

I did miss it, thanks for the info, just begs the question why build hospitals that cannot be manned?

mrmistoffelees · 29-12-2020, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I did miss it, thanks for the info, just begs the question why build hospitals that cannot be manned?

Politics.....

**Chris** · 29-12-2020, 21:43

Crisis management.

They’re only to be used if things get really bad, on the basis that treating people somewhere is better than not treating them at all. If they are used, then anyone who can possibly do anything remotely useful will be used along with them.

This country had a standing army of 0.8 million in 1939, including Territorials. It had 2.9 million by 1945. In a crisis, those hospitals will be operational, one way or another. If it came to volunteering to learn how to do basic hospital tasks so the pros can do the technical stuff, I’d be there. I’m sure I’d not be the only one to answer such an appeal. In an existential crisis parliament does of course have the absolute power to enact a conscription programme of one sort or another.

**Damien** · 29-12-2020, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

All due to piss poor planning by the Government/ NHS.

It’s almost as though the NHS is under more pressure in the winter, who could have possibly predicted that the usual winter pressure the NHS experiences would be increased by a winter COVID spike........I mean who?......................

And do what though? They built the Nightingale hospitals but can't really staff them. Even if they had started a year ago in anticipation of COVID being an outbreak there is no way they could have addressed the staffing issue, an increase in Doctors and Nurses would have to be a product of policy changes years ago. You can't scale up staff.

The NHS is thankfully seeing less of a strain of the seasonal flu but that advantage has been drowned out by the level of COVID cases.

The only realistic measure to stop cases is to stop the spread by reducing the number of connections the public has. We're talking stricter lockdown measures and more places being closed.