UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Don't worry old chap. Boris has an 'oven ready deal', he doesn't lie

That was in connection with the withdrawal deal ONLY and with Parliament being prepared to pass it. That happened.


The EU agreed to this, Were they lying?

It must also ensure the sovereignty of the United Kingdom and the protection of
its internal market, while respecting the result of the 2016 referendum including with regard
to the development of its independent trade policy and the ending of free movement of
people between the Union and the United Kingdom.
...
Above all, it should be a relationship that
will work in the interests of citizens of the Union and the United Kingdom, now and in the
future.
...
XII. FISHING OPPORTUNITIES
71. The Parties should cooperate bilaterally and internationally to ensure fishing at sustainable
levels, promote resource conservation, and foster a clean, healthy and productive marine
environment, noting that the United Kingdom will be an independent coastal state.
72. While preserving regulatory autonomy, the Parties should cooperate on the development of
measures for the conservation, rational management and regulation of fisheries, in a nondiscriminatory
manner. They will work closely with other coastal states and in international
fora, including to manage shared stocks.
73. Within the context of the overall economic partnership the Parties should establish a new
fisheries agreement on, inter alia, access to waters and quota shares.
...
130. Unless otherwise provided, the Joint Committee may agree to refer the dispute to an
independent arbitration panel at any time, and either Party should be able to do so where the
Joint Committee has not arrived at a mutually satisfactory resolution within a defined period
of time. The decisions of the independent arbitration panel will be binding on the Parties.
131. The Parties indicate that should a dispute raise a question of interpretation of provisions or
concepts of Union law, which may also be indicated by either Party, the arbitration panel
should refer the question to the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) as the sole
arbiter of Union law, for a binding ruling as regards the interpretation of Union law.
Conversely, there should be no reference to the CJEU where a dispute does not raise such a
question.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Don't worry old chap. Boris has an 'oven ready deal', he doesn't lie

You’re just like Labour, liars. The oven ready deal was the WA, that passed into law earlier this year.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Mick

You’re just like Labour, liars. The oven ready deal was the WA, that passed into law earlier this year.

Well what the deal was depends depends who you asked and when
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...boris-17593151

The Chancellor has warned there will be no alignment with EU regulations after Brexit - despite a pledge being made in the North East by Boris Johnson that standards would be protected.

It stark contrast to the pledges Boris Johnson made to workers during a visit to the Sunderland Nissan plant in the run up to December's General Election, where he claimed the deal protected standards and industrial requirements.

He said: "It is absolutely vital we protect the supply chain, it is absolutely vital we protect Nissan motors and we make sure people continue to invest in our country - and they will.

"I think, what business, large and small want to see is certainty about the arrangements.

"The thing about the deal we have got ready to go, is that as I say, it does protect the supply chains and keeps them intact and makes sure we have complete equivalence when it comes to our standards our industrial requirements and the rest of it.

"As we come out, it is all protected."

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

That was in connection with the withdrawal deal ONLY and with Parliament being prepared to pass it. That happened.

Technically you are correct. But BoJo did his best to give the impression it was for a deal. He didn't call it an "oven ready withdrawal agreement" he called it an "oven-ready deal"

[nomadking]

The wasn't a post-WA deal of any sort on the table, oven-ready or not. Negotiations couldn't even start until AFTER the WA came into force. AS such "oven-ready" could NEVER have been about any post-WA deal.
Just as the Remain camp clamour for "no to no deal", ONLY referred to the WA.

---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Technically you are correct. But BoJo did his best to give the impression it was for a deal. He didn't call it an "oven ready withdrawal agreement" he called it an "oven-ready deal"

So based upon your "reasoning", the "no deal" the Remain camp were whinging about was a final deal, and not the WA.

A deal is oven-ready. Let's get Brexit done and take this country forward.

Brexit HAS HAPPENED. It was being held up by a lack of a "deal" on the leaving "Transitional" arrangements.

Originally Posted by nomadking

That was in the event of leaving.
They wanted us to remain with the EU, because they are such a nice bunch of people, would never try to harm our country, would never try to control us, and are perfectly reasonable about things..

I wanted to stay in the EU because I feel it's better to be a part of a large economic bloc and single market than not to be. Not because 'they're a nice bunch of people'.

How 'nice' they are is irrelevant. This is diplomacy, not school. They may be nice, they might not. I think they, like us, operate in their own best interests and the extent to which we can get stuff agreed is when those interests align and when they don't you need to bargain and/or try to get your own way over theirs.

This is the same as with any US trade deal. Outside of a few fringe weirdos in the Tory Party who fetishise America the 'Special Relationship' isn't about personal like or not. It's about the fact our two countries share objectives about the world (at least a political level, i think culturally there is a connection as well obviously). America will work with us on a trade deal as far as it's in their interests to do so as will we. It's about how 'nice' America is either.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

I wanted to stay in the EU because I feel it's better to be a part of a large economic bloc and single market than not to be. Not because 'they're a nice bunch of people'.

How 'nice' they are is irrelevant. This is diplomacy, not school. They may be nice, they might not. I think they, like us, operate in their own best interests and the extent to which we can get stuff agreed is when those interests align and when they don't you need to bargain and/or try to get your own way over theirs.

This is the same as with any US trade deal. Outside of a few fringe weirdos in the Tory Party who fetishise America the 'Special Relationship' isn't about personal like or not. It's about the fact our two countries share objectives about the world. America will work with us on a trade deal as far as it's in their interests to do so as will we. It's about how 'nice' America is either.

Is the US planning on making a series of unreasonable demands on the UK or indeed anybody else? Is the EU making unreasonable demands on anybody else, other than the UK?
At NO POINT is the EU arguing for true 2-way cooperation, just a "do as we tell you". There is the crux of the matter.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Is the US planning on making a series of unreasonable demands on the UK or indeed anybody else? Is the EU making unreasonable demands on anybody else, other than the UK?
At NO POINT is the EU arguing for true 2-way cooperation, just a "do as we tell you". There is the crux of the matter.

We don't have to accept any of the EU demands. But they don't have to give us tariff free trade either. You make your vote and you take the consequences.

Why are Brexiteers still so angry after 4 years? Surely they've got what they want. Or do they now realise their error ? Tbh no blame can he attached as they have been lied to, big time.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

We don't have to accept any of the EU demands. But they don't have to give us tariff free trade either. You make your vote and you take the consequences.

Why are Brexiteers still so angry after 4 years? Surely they've got what they want. Or do they now realise their error ? Tbh no blame can he attached as they have been lied to, big time.

So are you saying the EU demands are unreasonable.
I was replying to the ludicrous implication the the EU aren't asking for anything the US won't be.
As I said, you move away from abusive and controlling partners, because they will continue to be abusive and controlling.

[Mr K]

We want the benefits of membership without membership. Never going to happen.

I might try it at the turnstile of the next football match I go to. "I'm not a season ticket holder but I demand free entry". Wonder how I'll get on ? Same as Boris I expect.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

We don't have to accept any of the EU demands. But they don't have to give us tariff free trade either. You make your vote and you take the consequences.

Why are Brexiteers still so angry after 4 years? Surely they've got what they want. Or do they now realise their error ? Tbh no blame can he attached as they have been lied to, big time.

Spot on. Although I can't understand their anger as they know what they voted for.

Just waiting with my Brexit Bingo Card until the following have been blamed for no great deal being signed then I can go to the pub:
a) The bullying EU
b) Remainer voters
c) Civil servants
d) Remainer MPs

Originally Posted by Mr K

We want the benefits of membership without membership. Never going to happen.

I might try it at the turnstile of the next football match I go to. "I'm not a season ticket holder but I demand free entry". Wonder how I'll get on ? Same as Boris I expect.

We never even wanted all the benefits of membership when we were members, old bean. Remember the Schengen area, and the single currency?

The UK hasn't sought the 'benefits of membership' since the day these negotiations began, despite continuity remoaners endlessly demanding a 'soft Brexit' (i.e. not really leaving at all ... how's that for benefits).

What HMG has attempted to do is to strike a trade deal much the same as many other countries have managed to do. The UK's efforts have been modest, deliberately well short of either Norway or Switzerland - both of which enjoy many benefits of membership without being members - and modelled more on what Canada has been doing. Despite this, the EU has continued to try to extract concessions that seem to have been aligned with what they assumed we would ask for, rather than what we actually asked for.

The EU has simply been intellectually unprepared to conceive of a future relationship based on the UK as a fully independent sovereign third party. Take for example Emmanuel Macron, who even now seems to think it's reasonable for us to pay a price in sovereign control over our fisheries in order to placate his coastal voters at the next General Election. If we were negotiating the next big new treaty within the EU that might just about be a reasonable demand in the name of EU harmony. But, frankly, now it isn't our problem, no matter how much he wants to make it so. And so we are where we are.

I will be quite content with No Deal at the end of this month if that is what it takes for the EU to understand that nothing they had before is theirs by right. Maybe once the mud-slinging dies down early next year, and we are a completely detached and independent country, realistic negotiations can finally get underway.

[1andrew1]

Let's respect one another's choices without resorting to derogatory names.

[Carth]

Why are Brexiteers still so angry after 4 years?

Sorry? Angry at what?

Seems to me it's the Remain bunch that are still angry . . . apparently something to do with the price of a bottle of plonk, a holiday in Dusseldorf, and the lack of tinned apricots

There are no benefits to being a member, that sways me we need to be in their failed project, period, it is a con job union and a total corrupt one at that - The UK made the right decision to leave the corrupted EU.