Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Damien

Police are still saying they spoke to the family, No 10 still saying they didn't.

Yes, that is inconvenient. There'll be a phonecall to a Chief Constable shortly demanding their version be 're-imagined' if the they still want a pension/CBE.....

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by nomadking

They were still self-isolating, in that they didn't have contact with any other household. That is the underlying criteria.

Most of those saying he should resign, are the ones who have been saying the same thing long before now.

Love to know what they should've done in such a short time frame to arrange anything.

Self isolating doesn't mean not having contact with any other household, it means not having contact with anyone. Surely the best bet would be isolating as much as possible from the wife in the same house and hoping that the virus didn't hit him bad, not travelling 250 miles and potentially spreading it in a garage and to the other household. With the position he holds, I'm sure some emergency care could have been arranged if he did get the virus bad.

Originally Posted by Damien

https://twitter.com/britainelects/st...45427781722118




Cummings will keep his job but it's another hit for the Government to take.

Poll of 3,700 people is hardly a hit.

The next question we should ask is, were the people who took part in that You Gov poll, mislead by a pathetic bunch of media hacks with a rather pathetic obsession of Cummings and they have axe to grind?

There is a much larger twitter poll on Momentum's main twitter page, over 25K votes, majority says he shouldn't resign and this is Momentum...

He definitely shouldn't when no laws or rules were broken here.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

They were still self-isolating, in that they didn't have contact with any other household. That is the underlying criteria.

Most of those saying he should resign, are the ones who have been saying the same thing long before now.

Love to know what they should've done in such a short time frame to arrange anything.

Judging by Twitter today, they have plenty of friends they could call upon for childcare. And they obviously had some kind of arrangements in place for this as they both worked. 16-hour days in Dominic's case, according to his wife.

I struggle to understand how they could have got all the way to Durham without filling up for petrol and taking a comfort break which would have resulted in contact with others.

Campaigners can brigade Internet polls, can’t do that with proper polls

I am still intrigued as to what rules and laws were broken here, anyone?

They left for their parents, to safeguarding of the child, which is in no doubt what any other common sense parent should have done, above all else that overrides everything else. But of course we are dealing with Cummings here and the haters are going to hate whatever he had done.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

I am still intrigued as to what rules and laws were broken here, anyone?

They left for their parents, to safeguarding of the child, which is in no doubt what any other common sense parent should have done, above all else that overrides everything else. But of course we are dealing with Cummings here and the haters are going to hate whatever he had done.

It's the do as I say, not as I do, attitude Mick. Not just by Cummings by by a minister (Jenrick) who was allowed to get away with it. You don't have to break a law to be unsuited for office, there's the spirit of the law too.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Wow! Seven pages already. Certainly seems to be a keen interest in this story.

Actually, if you had bothered to read. 53 posts all pertaining to be about Cummings were removed out of the Coronavirus thread because I did not want that thread becoming just about a man who broke no rules or laws. Simple isn't it?

---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

It's the do as I say, not as I do, attitude Mick. Not just by Cummings by by a minister (Jenrick) who was allowed to get away with it. You don't have to break a law to be unsuited for office, there's the spirit of the law too.

Jenrick broke no laws either.

The Guardian is reporting an eyewitness saw him back in Durham after he was spotting in London recovered from the virus. Suggesting he went back there after coming back to London. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ockdown-claims

One saw him in Durham on 19 April, days after Cummings was photographed in London having recovered from the virus.

A week earlier Cummings was seen by another witness in Barnard Castle on Easter Day, 30 miles away from Durham, the investigation found. The town, which takes its name from the English Heritage site at its centre, is a popular destination for days out.

Not completely convincing, witnesses can be mistaken, but the press is going swarm is see if there is further evidence that he either didn't self-isolate when there or went back and forth.



---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:40 ----------

The Mirror has a different witness seeing him back in Durham after he had returned to Downing street: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...kdown-22075857

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

I am still intrigued as to what rules and laws were broken here, anyone?

They left for their parents, to safeguarding of the child, which is in no doubt what any other common sense parent should have done, above all else that overrides everything else. But of course we are dealing with Cummings here and the haters are going to hate whatever he had done.

I think the recent letter from the Labour Party should help in this regard. Let's not forget that the Code of Conduct for Special Advisers states that advisers must “comply with the law and uphold the administration of justice.”

Claim: “Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for.”

Response: On 16 March 2020, the Prime Minister advised the British public to “stop non-essential contact with others and to stop all unnecessary travel”. On 23 March, he then instructed the British public to stay at home except for certain “very limited purposes”.

These rules were enshrined in law on 26 March:

“During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.”

In addition to this, the government’s guidance published on 23 March advised that if you were experiencing symptoms of coronavirus you must stay at home for 7 days and if you live with someone who has symptoms, self-isolate for 14 days from the day their symptoms started:

“If you live with others and you are the first in the household to have symptoms of coronavirus, then you must stay at home for 7 days, but all other household members who remain well must stay at home and not leave the house for 14 days.”

The NHS advice also states that: “If you or someone you live with has symptoms of coronavirus: do not leave your home for any reason – if you need food or medicine, order it online or by phone, or ask someone to deliver it to your home; do not have visitors in your home – including friends and family; do any exercise at home – you can use your garden, if you have one.”

The actions of Dominic Cummings would appear to be inconsistent with official advice.

Claim: “His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near to but separate from his extended family in case their help was needed. His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside.”

Response: I understand Number 10 sources are pointing to Dominic Cummings and his wife needing childcare. However, it does not appear to be within the government’s guidelines – or in the spirit of the guidelines – that a 260-mile trip can be justified, including the risk this could have brought to spreading the infection from London to another part of the country.

https://labourlist.org/2020/05/labou...lockdown-trip/

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mythica

Self isolating doesn't mean not having contact with any other household, it means not having contact with anyone. Surely the best bet would be isolating as much as possible from the wife in the same house and hoping that the virus didn't hit him bad, not travelling 250 miles and potentially spreading it in a garage and to the other household. With the position he holds, I'm sure some emergency care could have been arranged if he did get the virus bad.

The HOUSEHOLD as a whole self-isolates, as the others could still be carrying it, without yet showing symptoms. What other household did they have contact with?

Most people wouldn't have the option of moving to a spare property whilst self-isolating. The advice has to be set out how it is likely to apply for MOST people.

if you live with others and you are the first in the household to have symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19), then you must stay at home for at least 7 days, but all other household members who remain well must stay at home and not leave the house for 14 days. The 14-day period starts from the day when the first person in the house became ill.

They did it out of NECESSITY.

Originally Posted by Damien

The Guardian is reporting an eyewitness saw him back in Durham after he was spotting in London recovered from the virus. Suggesting he went back there after coming back to London. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ockdown-claims



Not completely convincing, witnesses can be mistaken, but the press is going swarm is see if there is further evidence that he either didn't self-isolate when there or went back and forth.

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------



It was never communicated that you were allowed to relocate closer to family as a precautionary measure should a virus have started to spread. It was always that you had to stay home if you caught the virus.

Yes but as already explained, the exception here was that we had the issue of a young child's welfare that needed to be safeguarded by being looked after by trusted parties. We don't know why Cummings didn't choose someone more local to him, he might have already asked people, who then said no, he might have had people close by he knew but that does not mean he should have to entrust them with his own child. A parent should have the right to choose who they want, in this case he chose his parents probably like any other parent of a young child would have and likely to have done so.

Originally Posted by nomadking

The HOUSEHOLD as a whole self-isolates, as the others could still be carrying it, without yet showing symptoms. What other household did they have contact with?

Most people wouldn't have the option of moving to a spare property whilst self-isolating.
They did it out of NECESSITY.

I know you likely don't believe it but if he had, after he had recovered and returned to London, then went back to Durham would you suggest that's enough for him to be fired?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think the recent letter from the Labour Party should help in this regard. Let's not forget that the Code of Conduct for Special Advisers states that advisers must “comply with the law and uphold the administration of justice.”

https://labourlist.org/2020/05/labou...lockdown-trip/

And they should be told that he broke no rules or laws and then told to stfu.

I care little for anything said or requested by the Labour party.

I must insist Dominic Cummings broke no rules or laws.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Yes but as already explained, the exception here was that we had the issue of a young child's welfare that needed to be safeguarded by being looked after by trusted parties. We don't know why Cummings didn't choose someone more local to him, he might have already asked people, who then said no, he might have had people close by he knew but that does not mean he should have to entrust them with his own child. A parent should have the right to choose who they want, in this case he chose his parents probably like any other parent of a young child would have and likely to have done so.

Whatever our views of having an exception for childcare, it did not exist when Dominic Cummings drove to Durham. No ifs, buts or maybes.

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

And they should be told that he broke no rules or laws and then told to stfu.

I care little for anything said or requested by the Labour party.

I must insist Dominic Cummings broke no rules or laws.

Surely you must agree he broke the following, even if you sympathised with him doing so?
“If you live with others and you are the first in the household to have symptoms of coronavirus, then you must stay at home for 7 days, but all other household members who remain well must stay at home and not leave the house for 14 days.”

The NHS advice also states that: “If you or someone you live with has symptoms of coronavirus: do not leave your home for any reason – if you need food or medicine, order it online or by phone, or ask someone to deliver it to your home; do not have visitors in your home – including friends and family; do any exercise at home – you can use your garden, if you have one.”