Coronavirus (OLD)

Originally Posted by Mr K

Don't you think that's a bit of an unnecessary risk for both you and her Hugh? Particularly the if she's doing other houses as well. Keep paying her out of your zillions and do the dusting yourself as you're kindly sole, plus retired/ nothing better to do ?

We won’t be in the same rooms, she will supply cleaning cloths for each house and we will machine wash on high heat wash - if she didn’t come back to clean, she would have no income.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

The Care Home scandal is just starting to blow up. It seems that one of the number of early mistakes was to transfer COVID-possible patients from hospitals to care homes with minimal mitigation of risk:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1260462206883450885



Seems even the Torygraph has had enough:

Care homes' soaring death rate blamed on 'reckless' order to take back Covid-19 patients

But does the above, which I accept, alter the fact that 60% of CV deaths are in hospitals that have all the facilities?

The angle I'm taking here is to question the sensationalising of care home deaths as a proportion of the total when the fully equipped hospital proportion is much higher.

Given that CV sufferers dwell in both places, wouldn't you expect thehospitals to do "better"?

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Given that CV sufferers dwell in both places, wouldn't you expect thehospitals to do "better"?

No, everyone who has the worse symptoms gets moved to the hospital don't they?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by downquark1

No, everyone who has the worse symptoms gets moved to the hospital don't they?

So what's the scandal about the care homes? If they have the worst symptoms, they'd be moved to hospital where they would die based on the statistics. My real point is why the scandal if the 40% of deaths are in care homes?

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

So what's the scandal about the care homes? If they have the worst symptoms, they'd be moved to hospital where they would die based on the statistics. My real point is why the scandal if the 40% of deaths are in care homes?

The scandal seems to be they infected care homes and the staff didn't have the training or resources to cope. But then I would say is you shouldn't have been returning people to healthy carehomes, they should have been completely isolated.

I don't think you can compare carehome death stats to hospital stats as they are not logically equivalent samples. A care home has a high population of old people with nothing special about them. A hospital has a high population of people who are struggling badly with CoVid and need care.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But does the above, which I accept, alter the fact that 60% of CV deaths are in hospitals that have all the facilities?

The angle I'm taking here is to question the sensationalising of care home deaths as a proportion of the total when the fully equipped hospital proportion is much higher.

Given that CV sufferers dwell in both places, wouldn't you expect thehospitals to do "better"?

You use the term "sensationalising" unwisely. I understand your reluctance to criticise a Conservative Government but we are in a time where we need to trust that the Government is making the correct decisions and when they do not, and moreover are seen to be not, they are able to admit it, discuss the failings and quickly address the shortcomings.

The biggest issue we face is that this administration's policy team has its origins in the Vote Leave campaign where the concept of truth was wholly optional and misinformation & misdirection were deliberate strategy decisions.

Now is not the time to deceive the country. We need clear and honest communication from our Government.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Y
Now is not the time to deceive the country. We need clear and honest communication from our Government.

We'll be waiting a LONG time for that. Boris is way out of his depth.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by downquark1

The scandal seems to be they infected care homes and the staff didn't have the training or resources to cope. But then I would say is you shouldn't have been returning people to healthy carehomes, they should have been completely isolated.

I don't think you can compare carehome death stats to hospital stats as they are not logically equivalent samples. A care home has a high population of old people with nothing special about them. A hospital has a high population of people who are struggling badly with CoVid and need care.

Well, I did ask at the outset of this sub-discussion whether or not I had misunderstood something! Basically the scandal is that there should have been any significant CV deaths at all in care homes.

---------- Post added at 16:06 ---------- Previous post was at 16:02 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

You use the term "sensationalising" unwisely. I understand your reluctance to criticise a Conservative Government but we are in a time where we need to trust that the Government is making the correct decisions and when they do not, and moreover are seen to be not, they are able to admit it, discuss the failings and quickly address the shortcomings.

The biggest issue we face is that this administration's policy team has its origins in the Vote Leave campaign where the concept of truth was wholly optional and misinformation & misdirection were deliberate strategy decisions.

Now is not the time to deceive the country. We need clear and honest communication from our Government.

You are wrong to bring politics into this - at least as far as I'm concerned. My assessment of sensationalism is the Torygraph's report on the matter. The article (behind paywall) does not go into the same rationale as Downquark, leaving it to the readers' imaginations.

Also you characterisation of this administration is true of any British government. They're all lying spinmasters.

The GE decided which bunch of spinmasters should govern us.

Right - that's straight now.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

So what's the scandal about the care homes?

Boris Johnson under fire for guidance on care homes risk
Labour leader Keir Starmer says UK prime minister misled MPs as providers query £600m funds pledge
Boris Johnson was accused on Wednesday of misleading MPs over official advice about the spread of coronavirus in care homes, as he sought to fend off growing criticism by announcing an additional £600m in funding for infection control in the care sector.
Labour leader Keir Starmer accused Mr Johnson during prime minister’s questions of failing repeatedly to ensure care organisations had received adequate supplies of protective equipment such as face masks and gloves as well as testing for Covid-19.
Sir Keir went on to highlight earlier UK government advice that said it was “very unlikely” that people receiving care in a care home or the community would become infected with the virus. Asked by Sir Keir why this was the case the prime minister denied the accusation and said it “wasn’t true the advice said that”.
However, official guidance published by the government on February 25 stated: “It remains very unlikely that anyone receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected.” The advice was withdrawn on March 13.

https://www.ft.com/content/6d954e7d-...d-2783aa62c68c

And from yesterday

Coronavirus: Care homes faced funding cut if they didn't take in COVID-19 patients
Sky News has seen letters which show local authorities threatened to withhold so-called uplift payments during the outbreak.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...ients-11986578

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

And from yesterday

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...ients-11986578

Key words being “Local Authority”

This is a fantastic piece of investigative journalism from Sky

Keith Gray represents 250 care homes in the north east of England.

He said of the original policy: "I believe it was one of the major factors that caused the outbreaks in the care homes.

"We could never prove this but we believe it was one of the major factors.

"Other factors were maybe the staff, maybe people from outside that came into care homes."

That’s settled then?

[Hom3r]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....nhsx.colocate


is the app for the COVID19 tracing, but its only IOW ATM.

I have installed it but it's not available to run yet.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Key words being “Local Authority”

Is that relevant?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

https://www.ft.com/content/6d954e7d-...d-2783aa62c68c

And from yesterday

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...ients-11986578

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavi...omes-guidance/

Government guidance withdrawn in March did say it was ‘very unlikely’ people in care homes would be infected with Covid-19

13th May 2020

[Carth]

Well . . racism rears its ugly head again

Who'd have thought it in these enlightened times we live in


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-13/...hs-nhs-racism/

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Is that relevant?

Depends if you’re blaming central government or not?