Coronavirus (OLD)

"Actively encouraged to go to work*"

I wonder what that means in practice?

Hopefully some more clarification tomorrow in the HoC.

*whilst avoiding public transport if possible

---------- Post added at 21:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

FYI, both local Universities have posted this

Following the government's announcement this evening, current working arrangements remain in place until further notice.

And an email went round the DWP towards the end last week staying the same thing.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Quite the rebel.

Indeed. No, just lucky.

---------- Post added at 22:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Employers won’t have done risk assessments, made adjustments or read and understood guidance (when published) for any meaningful changes to take place immediately.

Some.......Mrs Pierre works in construction and they had a voluntary shut down initially, but their sites stated up last week and they very much have done risk assessments, adjustments and all that is necessary to work again. Hopefully other sectors have had the foresight to do the same.

They would be remiss, even negligent, if they haven’t.

It every businesses responsibility to see how, if possible, they can operate safely in these conditions.

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

"Actively encouraged to go to work*"

I wonder what that means in practice?

Hopefully some more clarification tomorrow in the HoC.

There have always been only select businesses that are mandated to close.

Everyone else should have been trying to work out how they can operate safely in the last 6 weeks and be operating if they can.

If you can’t, you can’t. But you should try. Encouraged!

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Indeed. No, just lucky.[COLOR="Silver"]
Some.......Mrs Pierre works in construction and they had a voluntary shut down initially, but their sites stated up last week and they very much have done risk assessments, adjustments and all that is necessary to work again. Hopefully other sectors have had the foresight to do the same.

They would be remiss, even negligent, if they haven’t.

It every businesses responsibility to see how, if possible, they can operate safely in these conditions.

Indeed but until the Government offer clarity on what that would look like a meaningful risk assessment would be unlikely for most.

From the top of my head the availability/requirement to use PPE, potential amendments to the the 2 metre rule, access to mythical antibody tests and access to childcare for those that aren’t ‘key workers’ are immediate variables that would make a substantive risk assessment impossible just a few weeks ago in advance of any opening.

As you say construction voluntarily shut down in England so presumably has fewer obstacles than other sectors.

For other businesses the furlough scheme is exactly there to ensure they aren’t required to operate unsafely or prematurely in the pursuit of profits at the cost of workers lives.

There appears to be a difference in the Lobby briefing before the speech, and what was said - the BBC, Guardian, and other media outlets are reporting

Unlimited exercise, some sports and meeting one other person outdoors to be allowed from Wednesday
As widely expected, people will be formally allowed to go out for exercise more than once a day. In addition, people will be permitted to meet and sit down with one other person, outdoors, if they remain two metres apart. The new rules will start on Wednesday, when people can undertake “unlimited amounts of outdoor exercise”, and sunbathe or drive to destinations for exercise. Sports including angling, swimming in lakes and rivers, tennis and golf will also be allowed, but only within household groups.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nson-announced

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51506729

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...parks-22005053

https://www.businessinsider.in/inter...w/75665136.cms

Discussing the exercise measures, Government officials said tennis, water sports, angling and golf would be permitted in England from Wednesday as long as social distancing was enforced.

People will also be able to drive to parks or beaches within the nation – but cannot cross the border to Wales or Scotland for leisure activities if different restrictions are in force.

As long as a two-metre distance is maintained, people will also be allowed to sunbathe or chat in a park with one other person from a different household.

Difference between speech and briefing highlighted (by me) - again, hopefully this will be clarified tomorrow.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

Please help me - I’m agreeing with Piers Morgan!!

An intervention is required!

So, the Prime Minister is urging millions of non-essential workers to go out to work - but also telling people we still can’t see family or friends even if we maintain the same social distancing rules as non-essential workers at work?

Makes no sense.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

There appears to be a difference in the Lobby briefing before the speech, and what was said - the BBC, Guardian, and other media outlets are reporting

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nson-announced

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51506729

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...parks-22005053

https://www.businessinsider.in/inter...w/75665136.cms



Difference between speech and briefing highlighted (by me) - again, hopefully this will be clarified tomorrow.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

Please help me - I’m agreeing with Piers Morgan!!

An intervention is required!

Of the highlighted protions by you what do you deem to be the difference? BTW this time my highlighting of the sections of your highlighted post.

As long as a two-metre distance is maintained, people will also be allowed to sunbathe or chat in a park with one other person from a different household.

In addition, people will be permitted to meet and sit down with one other person, outdoors, if they remain two metres apart.

[jfman]

Scarier than some agreements I’m having on here

Although bizarrely I’m actually inclined to agree with the Government here. The changes to the rules for some workers affects a subset of the population, in supposedly monitored environments for a time limited period. In three weeks time that’ll filter through to the figures (hopefully) in a manner that shows transmission is controlled with testing catching cases.

66 million people all travelling to visit families and friends is a recipe for disaster and as the VE Day street parties demonstrated people can’t be trusted.

Originally Posted by Hugh

So, the Prime Minister is urging millions of non-essential workers to go out to work - but also telling people we still can’t see family or friends even if we maintain the same social distancing rules as non-essential workers at work?
Makes no sense.

As long as you keep your distance, what is stopping you from seeing family or friends ?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Indeed but until the Government offer clarity on what that would look like a meaningful risk assessment would be unlikely for most.

You don’t need government for that.

From the top of my head the availability/requirement to use PPE, potential amendments to the the 2 metre rule, access to mythical antibody tests and access to childcare for those that aren’t ‘key workers’ are immediate variables that would make a substantive risk assessment impossible just a few weeks ago in advance of any opening

You lack vision, something most entrepreneurs and successful business owners should have. I’m sure those that can, are putting measures in place. Obviously not all can.

As you say construction voluntarily shut down in England so presumably has fewer obstacles than other sectors.

no, they had massive issues, including supply chain of other firms. But construction was never mandated to close. So if they did suddenly they were issued with breach of contract orders, so they had to get back to work, and as I’m sure are aware there is no sector more focused on H&S than the construction industry. So before they started up a lot of work went into how they could do it safely.

For other businesses the furlough scheme is exactly there to ensure they aren’t required to operate unsafely or prematurely in the pursuit of profits at the cost of workers lives.

and I would not expect them to, but I would expect them to be using all their efforts to explore how they can operate safely and unfurlough their employees ASAP.

---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

As long as you keep your distance, what is stopping you from seeing family or friends ?

Nothing.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

You don’t need government for that.

You lack vision, something most entrepreneurs and successful business owners should have. I’m sure those that can, are putting measures in place. Obviously not all can.

no, they had massive issues, including supply chain of other firms. But construction was never mandated to close. So if they did suddenly they were issued with breach of contract orders, so they had to get back to work, and as I’m sure are aware there is no sector more focused on H&S than the construction industry. So before they started up a lot of work went into how they could do it safely.

and I would not expect them to, but I would expect them to be using all their efforts to explore how they can operate safely and unfurlough their employees ASAP.

---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------



Nothing.

I fail to see how I can reasonably be accused of lacking vision when I’ve correctly identified a number of variables for any successful risk assessment.

There’s no obligation to try to unfurlough workers as soon as possible - that’s simply your personal preference in the matter principally because of your political ideology. For some businesses opening up will remain not commercially viable for the foreseeable - in these cases unfurloughing staff “ASAP” as you put it would make no commercial sense and actually would leave some company officers in breach of their legal obligations in respect of foregoing Government assistance and incurring needless losses.

Great business owners and entrepreneurs know state hand outs are a great idea instead of them taking losses themselves.

I think you lack vision in this regard.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Paul

As long as you keep your distance, what is stopping you from seeing family or friends ?

You just have to be alert.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

There appears to be a difference in the Lobby briefing before the speech, and what was said - the BBC, Guardian, and other media outlets are reporting

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nson-announced

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51506729

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...parks-22005053

https://www.businessinsider.in/inter...w/75665136.cms



Difference between speech and briefing highlighted (by me) - again, hopefully this will be clarified tomorrow.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

Please help me - I’m agreeing with Piers Morgan!!

An intervention is required!

Meeting family or friends is a very different level of interaction compared to workers.

[denphone]

Britain's Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme is set to be extended until the end of September, at a reduced rate of 60 percent.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...source=twitter

Along with the extension, the chancellor is expected to announce that furloughed staff returning to work part time will have their wages “topped up” by the government, according to the report. Businesses are to be incentivised to gradually bring staff back to work so that social distancing rules can be observed and operations can be slowly built back up.

[Russ]

Boris proving there's no crisis he can't make worse.

Raab clarified it this morning on the BBC at 08:42 - you can meet up in park if you keep 2 metres apart, and could meet one parent/child in the morning, and another in the afternoon.

Glad it’s clearer now (before it was against the guidelines to meet up with people who weren’t members of your own household).

---------- Post added at 09:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

As long as you keep your distance, what is stopping you from seeing family or friends ?

It was against Government guidelines - happily, it now isn’t.

---------- Post added at 09:26 ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

Of the highlighted protions by you what do you deem to be the difference? BTW this time my highlighting of the sections of your highlighted post.

The difference was between the speech which did not contain the highlighted parts (which is the same information, but reported slightly differently in two different articles), and the briefing to the media, which did.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Raab clarified it this morning on the BBC at 08:42 - you can meet up in park if you keep 2 metres apart, and could meet one parent/child in the morning, and another in the afternoon.

Glad it’s clearer now (before it was against the guidelines to meet up with people who weren’t members of your own household).

So, does that mean it's OK if my father in law were to visit our garden, If he doesn't use the house and he maintains 2m distancing from my wife and I?

To be honest, i'm struggling to see the difference between the two scenarios.

Also, in theory, i could get on my motorbike, meet a mate at let's say a fuel station and then ride up to Bamburgh on the coast sit on the beach all day whilst maintaining social distancing.

It's very flimsy