Coronavirus (OLD)

[Russ]

Yeah whatever

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Russ

Just watched Panorama. The Tories have blood on their hands.

So what distorted garbage was in it?


1) Which heavily affected country had enough PPE? Not even South Korea did.
2) John Hopkins University(USA) stated that the UK was 2nd best prepared for a pandemic.
3) Plans have been forged since the Civil Contingency Act(2004).
4) Have the devolved governments done any better?
National Risk Register report for 2008.

Up to one half of the UK population may become
infected and between 50,000 and 750,000
additional deaths (that is deaths that would not
have happened over the same period of time had
a pandemic not taken place) may have occurred
by the end of a pandemic in the UK.
• Normal life is likely to face wider social and
economic disruption, significant threats to the
continuity of essential services, lower production
levels, shortages and distribution difficulties.

2016 report

The resilience of contingency
arrangements for the NHS supply chain for medical devices, consumables and pharmaceuticals
was subject to independent review in 2013. The sheer size of the pharmaceutical pipeline means
that the NHS does not normally need to stockpile medicines. However, successive National Risk
Assessments have pointed to the exceptional need to expand the stockpile that has existed
since the 1970s in the case of two contingencies: an influenza pandemic or a bioterrorist attack.
...
The current main stockpile includes some twenty-plus products. It is based primarily on the
assessed risk of an infectious-disease pandemic and of a bioterrorist attack (in the NRA), and
on whether the supplies are generally available in the NHS. Only those which are not usually
available are stockpiled. The total replacement value is over £100 million, so there is quite a
considerable stockpile available for use in the UK.

Pandemic preparedness report from 2015 on face masks.

Our ‘bottom line’ assessment of the available information for both healthcare and community settings is essentially unchanged from the previous HPA review and is similar to that of the recent review on face masks indicated above.
Conclusion
In conclusion there is limited data to support the use of face masks and/or respirators in healthcare and community settings. The effectiveness of masks and respirators is linked to consistent and correct usage; however, this remains a major challenge – both in the context of a formal study and in everyday practice.

As it mentions a previous HPA review, the policy before then was the same.

[Russ]

2nd best prepared country? Given how unprepared we were that’s like being the second best sexually transmitted infection.

Originally Posted by Russ

Yeah whatever

Let me guess, you have just listened to a ranting session from Dr. John Ashton, venomously Anti-Tory, Anti-Brexit and it's all their fault?

Are yes, Panarama, well know for its fair, unbiased, non sensationist reporting.

I would trust it about as much as I trust the Sun.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

If the schools aren’t opened on June 1st, then they won’t open again until September. But when not in school my kids go to holiday club, as do a lot of kids.

maybe/maybe not.

Just interested in what you perceive the difference in risk between schools and child care? You obviously see a difference.

It's not a perceived difference it's an actual difference.

Child care, nurseries or clubs will be smaller numbers in each location. Additionally take up of these services is much lower than state mandated education.

If there was an outbreak this would be easier to manage, contact trace, test and isolate.

Not really, if businesses need to start back up and have key people they need, that can’t come to work - what do they do?

Adapt, hire temporary staff, arrange childcare for their key staff or remain closed along with the pubs.

It's not up to the Government to find a workable solution for every single scenario that this forum can invent on the journey to 'normal'. It's simply not practical.

It's already accepted by Government there will be no going back to 'normal' until into next year.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Russ

2nd best prepared country? Given how unprepared we were that’s like being the second best sexually transmitted infection.

So remind me again, who exactly was prepared?

South Korea does not have enough protective masks - it has started rationing them - and it is trying to hire more trained staff to process tests and map cases. And the approach comes at the cost of some privacy. South Korea’s system is an intrusive mandatory measure that depends on people surrendering what, for many in Europe and America, would be a fundamental right of privacy. Unlike China and the island-state of Singapore, which have used similar methods, South Korea is a large democracy with a population that is quick to protest policies it does not like.

In South Korea as in Italy, an early case of COVID-19 was identified when a medical officer followed their intuition, rather than the official guidelines, on testing.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So remind me again, who exactly was prepared?

South Korea. Simply because we would balk at the idea of surrendering privacy is simply Darwinism in action - being too stupid to survive.

They may well not have had enough masks but I'd rather have their body count, and closer return to a normal economy than ours.

Some in this thread want to surrender 200,000 souls to get the economy going, l'd say a short term invasion of privacy seems a small price to pay.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Mick

Let me guess, you have just listened to a ranting session from Dr. John Ashton, venomously Anti-Tory, Anti-Brexit and it's all their fault?

Wrong Mick, guess whatever the hell you like.

---------- Post added at 21:12 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

So remind me again, who exactly was prepared?

Remind me again, which is your preferred STI?

---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

Are yes, Panarama, well know for its fair, unbiased, non sensationist reporting.

I would trust it about as much as I trust the Sun.

If all the points it raised get to be proven wrong I'll happily post that my opinion has changed.

But i wouldn't hold your breath.

Originally Posted by Russ

Wrong Mick, guess whatever the hell you like.

Well, if you hadn’t just posted a one liner, I wouldn’t have to guess.

You’ve made a claim, back it up, posting you’ve just watched a BBC Propaganda hit piece, with chatter from Dr John Ashton, doesn’t cut it for me.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

South Korea. Simply because we would balk at the idea of surrendering privacy is simply Darwinism in action - being too stupid to survive.

They may well not have had enough masks but I'd rather have their body count, and closer return to a normal economy than ours.

Some in this thread want to surrender 200,000 souls to get the economy going, l'd say a short term invasion of privacy seems a small price to pay.

South Korea does not have enough protective masks - it has started rationing them - and it is trying to hire more trained staff to process tests and map cases.

In South Korea as in Italy, an early case of COVID-19 was identified when a medical officer followed their intuition, rather than the official guidelines, on testing.

So the South Korean rules on testing didn't work. They were disregarded by that medical officer.
When 61% of your cases can be traced back to just one person, it makes it a lot easier.

“Patient 31,” as she became known, was a member of a secretive church which Deputy Minister for Health and Welfare Kim Gang-lip said has since linked to 61% of cases. Infections spread beyond the congregation after the funeral of a relative of the church’s founder was held at a nearby hospital, and there were several other smaller clusters around the country.

If there are more points of introduction of the virus spread around the country, it leads to more cases and more difficultly tracing anybody. IT DOES NOT SPONTANEOUSLY ARISE. It has to be introduced somewhere. It should be blatantly obvious that the more points of introduction means more cases. There is no simple way of comparing number of cases between countries. Just as you can't compare Northern Italy with Southern Italy. Southern Italy didn't magically do better.

[jfman]

Yes, and our lack of lockdown and airport screening contributed to more points of introduction. Our lack of any meaningful contact tracing mean we probably have no idea the original cases in all the strains in the UK.

We haven't got 10% of the global deaths by pure bad luck as you seem to be portraying. These are lessons that need to be learned soon, or else we will face more restrictions for longer.

You raise an interesting point though about the privacy angle. I wonder if the US, UK and billionaire owned media would have done a better job selling the idea had they understood the economic impact sooner. As it stands a tracing app appears to be part of our way out.

I wonder if the elderly, the furloughed or even just those dying for a pint in a pub before 2021 would have readily conceded had they fully understood the seriousness of the pandemic.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

It's not a perceived difference it's an actual difference.

Child care, nurseries or clubs will be smaller numbers in each location. Additionally take up of these services is much lower than state mandated education.

Of course there will be a smaller number if kids that attend these venues, however the numbers of children actually in contact with each would be around the same as a normal class size ( anywhere between 15-30) and many many smaller but numerous < 15 operating all over.

It’s as much a risk as a school and vice versa.

If there was an outbreak this would be easier to manage, contact trace, test and isolate.

so would a school? The pupils are all known, easily traced and isolated?

Adapt, hire temporary staff,

my point was about specific skills, what if known are available?

arrange childcare for their key staff

what if, as discussed, there is non-available as it is closed

or remain closed along with the pubs.

but they’ve been told they can operate, and therefore will no longer be able to claim government assistance.....just go out of business then?

It's not up to the Government to find a workable solution for every single scenario that this forum can invent on the journey to 'normal'. It's simply not practical.
.

Wow, at last.........an admission from you that government cannot do all or be responsible for all.

You’re on the right path now, keep walking.

Originally Posted by Mick

Well, if you hadn’t just posted a one liner, I wouldn’t have to guess.

You’ve made a claim, back it up, posting you’ve just watched a BBC Propaganda hit piece, with chatter from Dr John Ashton, doesn’t cut it for me.

When you start to do the homework, it all hits home - Panorama Editor is Rachel Jupp, who just happens to be the sister-in-law of Labour MP, Helen Hayes.

Dr John Ashton, Labour Member said back in March that he feared the NHS will be unable to manage the large numbers of people who will become seriously sick, he bitterly suggested by saying:

“It’s a joke when they put up people to say they are really on top of it and if it spreads at a community level the NHS will cope, it’s always coped. The hospitals are full at the moment, A&Es are full, beds are full, intensive care is full.”

Every single person that has got Covid-19 and landed in hospital has been treated and not been turned away because beds were "full". So how wrong was he?

[nomadking]

Link

The investigation by BBC Panorama found that vital items were left out of the stockpile when it was set up in 2009 and that the government subsequently ignored a warning from its own advisers to buy missing equipment.