Coronavirus (OLD)

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Because the entire world is trying to get hold of it, and it takes weeks/months to manufacture and ship - the orders are in, they are being manufactured.

So it's perfectly acceptable for the EU to trot that excuse out, but when the Government say it, they get criticised and lambasted for not forward planning?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

And as the EU procurement program has yet to supply 1 piece of PPE then being part of it or not is fuss and nonsense as you well know Andrew.

That's a non-sequitur as you should know.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

that will be arriving soon

Soon? not a very accurate ETA is it. Some people may consider a few weeks being "soon"

the sooner we placed the orders in an agreed procurement process, the sooner we would have received the equipment required, as there is intense competition for PPE which often has a long materials supply chain.

We wouldn't have got any kit any quicker via the EU, that's for sure.

Some good news

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/n...oved-ckh2s2mhj

A consortium of British companies will make 15,000 new ventilators in the next few months to fill the NHS’s shortfall.

Ministers placed an unexpectedly large order yesterday for the Penlon ESO2 devices, which are the first to receive approval after Boris Johnson challenged industry to join the national fight against coronavirus.

The order will bring the number of ventilators in the NHS to more than 25,000. At the start of the pandemic it had only 8,000 and there were fears that hospitals would not have enough to treat the influx of patients.

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

So it's perfectly acceptable for the EU to trot that excuse out, but when the Government say it, they get criticised and lambasted for not forward planning?

No, I have always said that it is not fair to criticise them for that - what I have criticised is not having the emergency just in case stocks in place, and not joining the EU procurement initiative so that we will get the PPE equipment quicker.

My post from the 18th

Originally Posted by Hugh

I think the problem is that it is expected that, during a world-wide shortage of PPE, and an unforeseen requirement for PPE in Care Homes (the supply requirement went from a couple of hundred Trusts to over 58,000 organisations), there would/should be enought for everyone - this is a massive shift in requirements in a time of crisis, and a complex supply chain, mostly from overseas.

Could things have been done better - probably; does it help blaming people until we know the facts - probably not.

There have been shortfalls in lots of places - an example would be in Care Homes, where the group that my mum-in-law is in got supplies of PPE early in the crisis, whilst other Care Home organisations didn't; the other care homes shouldn't be blamed for not being as forward thinking as the one mum's in, because at the beginning very few people thought it would come to this. Should all the GP Surgeries, which are in effect private businesses, be blamed for not having ordered PPE equipment earlier?

In the vast complexity of Health and Social Care, whatever the Government does, it won't be enough - review afterwards, critique constructively during, but blaming is inappropriate at this stage, imho (especially without evidence, as in the comments about NHS managers).

From the Times

On the 13rh

Originally Posted by Hugh

Reasonably balanced article in the Times today.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...TM_1Imag_CR1_2

Washington Post view

https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-r...m=4&linktot=78

At this time, I think the Government made decisions based on what they thought was best for the country at that time, then changed when evidence within and without the country showed differently - I hope we learn from this, but any witch hunt will only make that more difficult.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, I have always said that it is not fair to criticise them for that - what I have criticised is not having the emergency just in case stocks in place, and not joining the EU procurement initiative so that we will get the PPE equipment quicker.

Even if there is just a small chance of it turning into a full scale epidemic one should should always have have the stock just in case.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

and not joining the EU procurement initiative so that we will get the PPE equipment quicker.

They've got some quicker, just flew in from Turkey.

Originally Posted by Pierre

They've got some quicker, just flew in from Turkey.

The EU countries already have some, the EU procurement initiative was planning for when there were greater shortfalls due to increased demand...

Anyway, on a more humorous note, people were explaining why Jacob Rees-Mogg was in the HoC for the resumption of Parliament, rather than video-conferencing, when some one said on Twitter

Jacob doesn’t appear on screens or mirrors...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The EU countries already have some, the EU procurement initiative was planning for when there were greater shortfalls due to increased demand...

Anyway, on a more humorous note, people were explaining why Jacob Rees-Mogg was in the HoC for the resumption of Parliament, rather than video-conferencing, when some one said on Twitter

So how come Spain, Italy, and France all had shortages?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Pierre

They've got some quicker, just flew in from Turkey.

That's just the first load (25 tons of 84 tons total).

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

We wouldn't have got any kit any quicker via the EU, that's for sure.

Were you blessed with this knowledge back in March when the decisioon to join or not was made?

[jonbxx]

Acquisition of PPE is a public health issue and so does not normally fall under the EUs umbrella as public health is a national issue, not an EU wide one so the European Commission has started from scratch on this one.

So why did countries ask/allow the EU to take on PPE procurement? I am guessing cost is a big issue. If 27 countries (or 28 if someone checks their email) plus a few other countries are all bidding for a limited supply of PPE, a bidding war will start which doesn't help anyone but most impacts the less well off countries which have been hit hard by the virus.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by pip08456

That's just the first load (25 tons of 84 tons total).

is all this stuff single use or do scrubs get cleaned and reused?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Acquisition of PPE is a public health issue and so does not normally fall under the EUs umbrella as public health is a national issue, not an EU wide one so the European Commission has started from scratch on this one.

So why did countries ask/allow the EU to take on PPE procurement? I am guessing cost is a big issue. If 27 countries (or 28 if someone checks their email) plus a few other countries are all bidding for a limited supply of PPE, a bidding war will start which doesn't help anyone but most impacts the less well off countries which have been hit hard by the virus.

Do you think there isn't already a bidding war for PPE.

"Where we are now, 50 states all trying to buy the same equipment from China, and then the federal government comes in with (the Federal Emergency Management Agency), which is trying to purchase the same equipment," Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York, a Democrat, said on April 2 during an appearance on MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show."

"I bought 17,000 ventilators – ordered 17,000 ventilators from China – but I think what's happening is when somebody else outbids you, your order just is gone. I haven't even received 1,000."

Source

70% of journalists and media professionals polled by the Press Gazette think journalists are not doing a good job of holding the government to account over the Covid-19 crisis.

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/poll-...spondents-say/

Originally Posted by Chris

70% of journalists and media professionals polled by the Press Gazette think journalists are not doing a good job of holding the government to account over the Covid-19 crisis.

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/poll-...spondents-say/

I think most of us would agree...

Too many click bait questions.