Coronavirus (OLD)

[jfman]

In Scotland the Chief Medical Officer hinted at the current restrictions being in place for 13 weeks.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Already happening in italy after 4 weeks lockdown

https://en.as.com/en/2020/03/29/othe...24_787653.html

Things are returning to normal in Wuhan. I think this could go on here for up to 3 months, but I would not have thought it would be necessary beyond that.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Things are returning to normal in Wuhan. I think this could go on here for up to 3 months, but I would not have thought it would be necessary beyond that.

Except of course China did everything to bring it under control once they realised the scale of what they were dealing with.

Track, trace, isolate.

It will take us longer because we didn't conform to the consensus of the global scientific community fast enough, haven't done any meaningful testing in the context of above and allowed large gatherings to continue far longer than they ought to have. Indeed on that last point it was only when the Arsenal manager caught it that we suspended Premiership games and other sports followed suit.

We have almost nothing in common with the response in Wuhan (once China acknowledged the scale of the problem).

And of course regardless of what's going on anywhere any decisions should be based on the body count here.

I bet this didn't happen in Wuhan:

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/...sXFQkBICqCTiUk

[nomadking]

China WAS criticised for it's tactics of severe lockdown.
Link

The ruling Communist Party drew heavy criticism at first for its approach, which many both domestically and abroad saw as heavy-handed, even draconian. But in recent weeks, the party has aggressively promoted its strategy as a model for other countries.

Link

As the U.S. and other countries imposed travel restrictions, even the World Health Organization questioned whether they were a good idea. But early evidence is causing some disease fighters to reconsider.

South Korea

This includes enforcing a law that grants the government wide authority to access data: CCTV footage, GPS tracking data from phones and cars, credit card transactions, immigration entry information, and other personal details of people confirmed to have an infectious disease. The authorities can then make some of this public, so anyone who may have been exposed can get themselves - or their friends and family members - tested.

Of course that misses out strangers passing one another on the street.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

China WAS criticised for it's tactics of severe lockdown.
Link

Link


South Korea
Of course that misses out strangers passing one another on the street.

As I said.

"Did everything they could to bring it under control once they realised the scale of what they were dealing with".

Being criticised as "too draconian" is hardly a valid criticism.

As for your criticism of South Korea you are, not for the first time in this thread, lacking insight into the bigger picture.

Just because you could pass someone in the street doesn't mean there isn't value in identifying everyone else you had contact with.

When that "person on the street" comes forward you conduct similar contact tracing. Eventually you have identified almost everyone at risk. Because you are considering things at a 'micro' level and ignoring the bigger picture you somehow claim this has equal value as not tracing at all. Demonstrably false in any pandemic event.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

As I said.

"Did everything they could to bring it under control once they realised the scale of what they were dealing with".

Being criticised as "too draconian" is hardly a valid criticism.

As for your criticism of South Korea you are, not for the first time in this thread, lacking insight into the bigger picture.

Just because you could pass someone in the street doesn't mean there isn't value in identifying everyone else you had contact with.

When that "person on the street" comes forward you conduct similar contact tracing. Eventually you have identified almost everyone at risk. Because you are considering things at a 'micro' level and ignoring the bigger picture you somehow claim this has equal value as not tracing at all. Demonstrably false in any pandemic event.

Where have I criticised South Korea? I just pointed out the policies that wouldn't allowed in the West, weren't necessarily a complete solution.

By criticising China for it's lockdown, they were saying a lockdown shouldn't have happened. The scientific evidence didn't support a lockdown.

In conclusion there is limited data indicating that mass gatherings are associated with influenza transmission and this theme is continued with the inclusion of new evidence for the update. Certain unique events such as the Hajj, specialised settings including civilian and military ships- a new theme for this update, indoor venues and crowded outdoor venues provide the primary evidence base to suggest mass gatherings can be associated with Influenza outbreaks. Some evidence suggests that restricting mass gatherings together with other social distancing measures may help to reduce transmission. However, the evidence is still not strong enough to warrant advocating legislated restrictions. Therefore, in a pandemic situation a cautious policy of voluntary avoidance of mass gatherings would is still the most prudent message. Operational considerations including practical implications of policy directed at restricting mass gathering events should be carefully considered.

[jfman]

I think given the proportion of the planet under lockdown scientific analysis has moved on somewhat than that advice.

Policies like those implemented in South Korea could be implemented by anyone who legislated for it - that's the purpose of Government.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I have several points to make on this issue.

We know that we have a partial lockdown. Its not a total lockdown yet.

But, if we had only listed to the PM before and didn't defy what he said about social distance. We would NOT be in this predicament.

From the off we had panic buying, which was stupid.
We then had loads of people defying the order of social distance. And jammed trains, and had barbeques. And now the government has said that this could last for months.

I certainly hope not, many businesses will go bust. And that is a genuine problem.

And before members saying that shopkeepers can claim a certain amount of money in JUNE. Too late by then.

I know of small businesses have laid off staff, and closed down.

Local garages have closed down, as most of the work comes from MOTs.

If you follow advice on Sky ( l don't know the link for computers) there is a video by Kate Winslet, on washing your hands. Watch it and follow what she says.

MPs have not even told you what washing hands can do with the germs.

I also heard that if we get strong sunny weather. This will kill the bug.

I think that by the mid April, we should be getting back to normal - I sincerely hope so

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I am not a medical person.

But l would like to know how they create a vaccine to destroy the latest virus outbreak.

And if so, if penicillin works on various bugs. Why cant the present anti biotics work on Covid 19

Really no need for a new thread to ask questions about coronavirus Arthur.

Merged.

---------- Post added at 21:29 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

However, to answer your question: antibiotics kill bacteria but they have no effect on viruses.

To make a vaccine, you have to find a way of triggering the human immune system to create antibodies that will destroy the virus. A vaccine effectively prompts the body to protect itself.

[RichardCoulter]

As Parliament has closed for a month, is it now proroged? Will he have had to speak to the Queen about it again?

No. Parliament rises for recess at Easter every year. They’ve just agreed to rise earlier and for longer.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Except of course China did everything to bring it under control once they realised the scale of what they were dealing with.

Track, trace, isolate.

China being a quasi communist totalitarian state, where freedoms are not a right, but a gift of the state.

Socialism as it always ends, with less freedoms and state control.

But not compatible with our society.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

China being a quasi communist totalitarian state, where freedoms are not a right, but a gift of the state

Nobody is saying otherwise, but it has helped them to control the virus. It's why we in the West might struggle and we'd be foolish to think we'll be as successful at controlling it.

---------- Post added at 22:32 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

Anyway on the upside...

jfman & Pierre, the next time I see either of you sniping at other members (inc each other) you will be removed from this topic.

---------- Post added at 01:06 ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Anyway on the upside...

Given that was on Jan 2nd, before any of this, what's your point ?