UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I suspect by "cobbled together" Hugh means the bill being researched, stakeholders consulted on, drafted, legally assessed, redrafted, consulted on again, etc and not merely presenting the finished article to Parliament.

Stop trying to sugarcoat the quick passage of these Bills. They were cobbled together.

[1andrew1]

Just trying to explain how borh you and Hugh can be correct as you're each talking at cross purposes. In both senses.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Just trying to explain how borh you and Hugh can be correct as you're each talking at cross purposes. In both senses.

A normal passage of a Bill from it being introduced, carried, debated, gone through each stage from committee to report and third reading, for it to then be passed to the Lords and receiving Royal Assent, can take months or even years.

A Bill that passes all stages, in a single day, is by Papa's definition, "cobbled" together.

In other news it is going to laughable when John Major or his counsel, stand to give their arguments at the Supreme Court later.

What is John Major's argument going to say?

"It's never ok, to prorogue Parliament...

......Except, when I did it, to avoid the Cash for Questions Scandal!".

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Mick

What is John Major's argument going to say?

"It's never ok, to prorogue Parliament...

......Except, when I did it, to avoid the Cash for Questions Scandal!".

Seems corruption is rife in the UK Govt aswell then? There's been a few other scandals too...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

The EU although not perfect, might not be so bad in comparison. All is not black and white in these things.

Originally Posted by Mick

You make this so easy Hugh. Stop it.

The Cooper Letwin Bill, introduced on 3rd of April, went through all its stages in a single day, thanks to Letwin’s agreed motion to allow the Bill to go through the stages in a single day, which by convention, was unprecedented.

You’re not going to tell me now that this Bill wasn’t “cobbled” together in one day, when a motion was carried for it to pass the Commons in a single day now are you?

The Benn Bill, again went through the Commons, in quick style in a Single day, thus, another Bill “Cobbled” together. The fact that both Bills, didn’t go through Lords the same day is irrelevant. Both Bills, are as defined “cobbled” together, because the normal timetable for them passing each stage was bypassed.

The Benn Bill was published on the 2nd September, submitted to the Speaker* on the 3rd September, debated and passed through the Houses 4th to 6th September, Queen’s Assent 9th September - that’s 6 working days (not included is the time spent writing, agreeing, lawyers reviewing, rewriting the actual bill).

The Cooper-Letwin Bill was presented to the Speaker* on the 2nd April, introduced to the House on 3rd April, passed on the 3rd, went to the House of Lords on the 4th April, House of Lords Committee and Report Stage 8th of April, Common vote on House of Lords amendment and Royal Assent on 8th April - that’s 4 working days (again, this does not include any time spent writing, agreeing, lawyers reviewing, rewriting the actual bill).

Neither of those appear to have been "cobbled together" in one day...

*bills must be presented to the Speaker on (at least) the day before being introduced to the House

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The Benn Bill was published on the 2nd September, submitted to the Speaker* on the 3rd September, debated and passed through the Houses 4th to 6th September, Queen’s Assent 9th September - that’s 6 working days (not included is the time spent writing, agreeing, lawyers reviewing, rewriting the actual bill).

The Cooper-Letwin Bill was presented to the Speaker* on the 2nd April, introduced to the House on 3rd April, passed on the 3rd, went to the House of Lords on the 4th April, House of Lords Committee and Report Stage 8th of April, Common vote on House of Lords amendment and Royal Assent on 8th April - that’s 4 working days (again, this does not include any time spent writing, agreeing, lawyers reviewing, rewriting the actual bill).

Neither of those appear to have been "cobbled together" in one day...

*bills must be presented to the Speaker on (at least) the day before being introduced to the House

I don't think any amount of smart arsery is going to fly here,they were cobbled together.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I don't think any amount of smart arsery is going to fly here,they were cobbled together.

It's good parliament can work quickly when it really needs to though, isn't it ?

Originally Posted by Hugh

The Benn Bill was published on the 2nd September, submitted to the Speaker* on the 3rd September, debated and passed through the Houses 4th to 6th September, Queen’s Assent 9th September - that’s 6 working days (not included is the time spent writing, agreeing, lawyers reviewing, rewriting the actual bill).

The Cooper-Letwin Bill was presented to the Speaker* on the 2nd April, introduced to the House on 3rd April, passed on the 3rd, went to the House of Lords on the 4th April, House of Lords Committee and Report Stage 8th of April, Common vote on House of Lords amendment and Royal Assent on 8th April - that’s 4 working days (again, this does not include any time spent writing, agreeing, lawyers reviewing, rewriting the actual bill).

Neither of those appear to have been "cobbled together" in one day...

*bills must be presented to the Speaker on (at least) the day before being introduced to the House

So, you have just confirmed what I already said, so I reiterate they passed all stages in one day!

The Bills were "cobbled" together.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It's good parliament can work quickly when it really needs to though, isn't it ?

Passing bad [un-scrutinised] law is nothing to be proud of,bad law has consequences further down the line.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Passing bad law is nothing to be proud of,bad law has consequences further down the line.

And the way things are going, Finland PM in conjunction with the French President, giving Boris the ultimatum of 30th September, or it's "over", makes the Benn Bill largely a defunct piece of crap, I can call it that because it's not a law, we as individuals have to follow.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Passing bad law is nothing to be proud of,bad law has consequences further down the line.

Don't see any problem if it was 'cobbled' together. Sometimes they do need to act quickly (in this case to stop a no deal Brexit). It's only telling the PM to write a letter, not much can go wrong with that surely ?

They only had to pass it that quickly cos of Bozza's illegal (allegedly atm) prorogation, which was intended to stop them passing bills like this. Parliament 1 the Liar 0. But admittedly its only half time.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Passing bad [un-scrutinised] law is nothing to be proud of,bad law has consequences further down the line.

It was scrutinised in line with Parliamentary processes and passed by both Houses. To redefine "scrutiny" because you don't like a law as passed is denying Parliamentary sovereignty. Is that not what we voted to get back?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mick

And the way things are going, Finland PM in conjunction with the French President, giving Boris the ultimatum of 30th September, or it's "over", makes the Benn Bill largely a defunct piece of crap, I can call it that because it's not a law, we as individuals have to follow.

It was a childish tantrum enacted into law,a total abuse of power.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

It was a childish tantrum enacted into law,a total abuse of power.

Is this the conclusion of the Supreme Court hearing ?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Don't see any problem if it was 'cobbled' together. Sometimes they do need to act quickly (in this case to stop a no deal Brexit). It's only telling the PM to write a letter, not much can go wrong with that surely ?

They only had to pass it that quickly cos of Bozza's illegal (allegedly atm) prorogation, which was intended to stop them passing bills like this. Parliament 1 the Liar 0. But admittedly its only half time.

This is an attempt to force the PM to beg the EU for something he doesn't want,it's designed to make him look like a fool,it's just an act of petty revenge.