PM Boris forms a government

Originally Posted by Pierre

The problem is though, that the backstop (IIRC) isn’t what Labour objected to in the deal.

Even if Boris navigates around the Backstop his problem is that Labour, if they revert to type, will just block anything that is put before them.

The only way Brexit happens is with a Government with a majority and a membership fully behind them. The only way of getting that is a GE. No guarantees though.

The funny thing is though the 2017 election, May tried to make about Brexit, but Labour made it about other issues and stole the initiative.

However, this election - if it happens will be squarely about Brexit.

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How many in your career of IT project management have you overseen?



It’s not, your right. However, if I took in - I dunno- 50,000 friends and committed to buying 50,000 UHD tv’s, IPads, and PS4’ demanded 40% discount, and said if we don’t get it I’ll go to another retailer............I reckon i’d Get a dialogue going.

IT Project Management was part of my career - I have been an IT Director, IT Programme Manager, Head of Programme Management , Head of Portfolio Management, and Head of Technology for a multi-billion pound company, and have been an active part of the negotiations for programmes that were 10s of millions of pounds; these had teams involved in the negotiations of dozens of people, supported by Subject Matter Experts and teams.

The complexity involved in negotiating deals for thousands of different tracks that Brexit involves would be vastly more than any I was involved in, and I recognise this - you think it could be done by 1 person.

How many negotiations involving 10s of millions have you been involved?

Re your iPad example - Apple don’t discount on new iPads; they don’t need to (speaking as someone who bought 3000 in one go for a University, using our Procurement professionals); they can sell as many as they want at full price, they don’t need to discount.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

I'd say the currency collapse is a reality, not a wet dream.

Correct.

There is a chance that Dominic Cummings' approach to politics doesn't work when it comes to campaigns based on a group that needs to exist past a single election. The withdrawing of the whip and the aggressive approach to the party.

This is from Tim Shipman who is a Times Political Reporter and one of the best reporters on Brexit having written two authoritive books on the referendum and the subsequent May-called election: https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/...38852200976384

The mood has certainly shifted in Westminster. I’ve had three texts from Team May contacts today who appear to be enjoying the corner into which the prime minister has backed himself. Two weeks ago they were looking enviously at a government with a plan bossing the news agenda

Don't forget today Boris Johnson has lost his majority and it about to expel up to a dozen MPs. I might, likely am, wrong here but remember a referendum over a couple of months is an entirely different proposition to managing party politics.

[Dave42]

government loses vote by majority of 27

More rebels than expected.

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Labour looks to be refusing to allow the election until the No Deal bill goes though

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

IT Project Management was part of my career - I have been an IT Director, IT Programme Manager, Head of Programme Management , Head of Portfolio Management, and Head of Technology for a multi-billion pound company, and have been an active part of the negotiations for programmes that were 10s of millions of pounds; these had teams involved in the negotiations of dozens of people, supported by Subject Matter Experts and teams.

whooo! Get you. This is Cable Forum, not Linked In, did you copy and post that?

I’d give you a job. Make sure post something inspirational too.

The complexity involved in negotiating deals for thousands of different tracks that Brexit involves would be vastly more than any I was involved in, and I recognise this - you think it could be done by 1 person.

Ok I was being facetious, but May’s team was ineffective.

In my humble career, I have been involved in several negotiations, admittedly only worth millions not billions. I am not a negotiator, I am one of the SME’s that you mention. But in each case the whole team has been no bigger 4-5, and that consisted of the negotiator, the SME, the Lawyer and 2no. Money men.

How many negotiations involving 10s of millions have you been involved?

As above, not 10’s of millions no. Just a few million at best.

Best one was a mediation, to avoid a court situation and that involved just 3 of us. SME, Lawyer and Accountant. Settled for a few million. Sorry if that’s not big enough in the trouser dept for you.

Re your iPad example - Apple don’t discount on new iPads;

like that was part of my point.

For a multi-million pound negotiator- you don’t come across as that switched on - if you don’t mind me saying.

[jfman]

Pierre has had enough of experts!

The following Tory MPs look no longer to be Tory MPs:

- Guto Bebb
- Richard Benyon
- Steve Brine
- Alistair Burt
- Greg Clarke
- Ken Clarke
- David Gauke
- Justine Greening
- Dominic Grieve
- Sam Gymiah
- Philip Hammond
- Stephen Hammond
- Richard Harrington
- Margot James
- Oliver Letwin
- Anne Milton
- Caroline Noakes
- Antionette Sandbach
- Sir Nicholas Soames
- Rory Stewart
- Ed Vaizey

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Pierre has had enough of experts!

I think i’m Going to put myself out there, as one.

Although now looks like they'll Remain? Leadsom has said they can stay if they vote for an election. Looks like they called Boris' bluff.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

The following Tory MPs look no longer to be Tory MPs:

- Guto Bebb
- Richard Benyon
- Steve Brine
- Alistair Burt
- Greg Clarke
- Ken Clarke
- David Gauke
- Justine Greening
- Dominic Grieve
- Sam Gymiah
- Philip Hammond
- Stephen Hammond
- Richard Harrington
- Margot James
- Oliver Letwin
- Anne Milton
- Caroline Noakes
- Antionette Sandbach
- Sir Nicholas Soames
- Rory Stewart
- Ed Vaizey

Election required.

If Corbyn doesn’t go for it, he’s a jockey of the order of the knob.

But why would that surprise you?

Originally Posted by Pierre

Election required.

If Corbyn doesn’t go for it, he’s a jockey of the order of the knob.

But why would that surprise you?

I’m surprised you still require evidence before admitting Jezza to that ancient and noble order.

It's tactics in the end. He knows as well as anyway that these are the circumstances in which Boris Johnson wants to call an election. He is probably wary of that.

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No 10 confirms those MPs will have the whip withdrawn. Philip Hammond, Ken Clarke, Nicholas Soames, Rory Stewart and Oliver Letwin are no longer Tory MPs along with 16 more.

The absurd dog’s breakfast that is the Fixed Term Parliament Act has got to go. In any other time, a defeat like this (or the sudden loss of a working majority) would rightly have been construed as a confidence issue and any previous PM would have been perfectly correct to call an immediate election. Amidst all the breathless claims about the death of democracy, the democrats seem to have forgotten that just about the oldest convention of them all is that parliament lets the government govern. It does not attempt to control the normal process of government via statute and it does not attempt to keep a government in place that can no longer function.

[Carth]

I don't 'do' politics, so freely admit that much of the aforementioned stuff is well over my head and beyond comprehension.

What I do understand though, is that they're all backstabbing and shuffling about forming cliques instead of sitting down and discussing how to get the deal they all want so much . .

I'll go as far as saying it's akin to trade unions of the 70's