PM Boris forms a government

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

That's how Brexit has been redefined after the fact. You know this as well as I do, I fail to see the value in perpetuating the myth. Especially as it's broadly irrelevant - the EU won't budge because it protects the integrity of the Single Market.

So what was Brexit all about then? It is the EU inventing things to suit their agenda. EG "Integrity of the Single Market".

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

That's how Brexit has been redefined after the fact. You know this as well as I do, I fail to see the value in perpetuating the myth. Especially as it's broadly irrelevant - the EU won't budge because it protects the integrity of the Single Market.

No no,

I recall everything before the fact. Which is why I voted remain.

Those 3no. Results of Brexit were front and centre, and to say otherwise is disingenuous to be kind, and an outright lie to be less kind.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So what was Brexit all about then? It is the EU inventing things to suit their agenda. EG "Integrity of the Single Market".

Just as we don't want uncontrolled freedom of movement (people) the EU don't want uncontrolled freedom of movement (goods and services) streaming in from a non-EU member state (for example, chlorinated chicken). That means border controls. Makes sense, no?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I'm surprised that none of these truthtwisters haven't yert claimed that we're all gonna die!

You're twisting the truth, it was the imperial college London that released a study in January that claimed up to 12000 extra deaths a year could/would result from leaving, presumably though they're all old, ill and or poor so no one cares about them, no brexit martyr statue, no horst wessel lied for them

Originally Posted by Pierre

We
We need to leave, with a deal that respects what we were there led would happen and if you can’ Remember it was:

- leave the Single Market
- leave the Customs Union
- leave the ECJ

As a minimum.


If this subversion of democracy was being undertaken in Central America, Africa or asia we’d be denouncing them as oppressive rogue states governed by despots.

I am sick of the bullshiite, I was a remainer....but this process has turned me into the most hardened leaver.

Just do as you’re Fff’n told.

From the moment Dave opened his mouth this whole debacle is something that wouldn't look out of place in central America, Donny is even cosying up to us and we know how much he loves an unelected despot and I think it's you who can't remember, didn't ending freedom of movement get into that list?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

You're twisting the truth, it was the imperial college London that released a study in January that claimed up to 12000 extra deaths a year could/would result from leaving, presumably though they're all old, ill and or poor so no one cares about them, no brexit martyr statue, no horst wessel lied for them



From the moment Dave opened his mouth this whole debacle is something that wouldn't look out of place in central America, Donny is even cosying up to us and we know how much he loves an unelected despot and I think it's you who can't remember, didn't ending freedom of movement get into that list?

You’re right it did and i’m More than happy for it to stay,

I didn’t include it because it is intrinsically implied by leaving the Single Market, we leave the four freedoms. But happy to explicitly list it.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Pierre

We need to just leave, the EU have made it clear they won’t change the deal. Parliament has rejected the deal 3 times.

What do you expect to happen?

It is clear any other deal that may be considered by the EU would be BINO, and our Remain Parliament EU sycophants would happily do a deal that kept us tied to them Single Market, Customs Union, ECJ and therefore not Brexit.

We need to leave, with a deal that respects what we were there led would happen and if you can’ Remember it was:

- leave the Single Market
- leave the Customs Union
- leave the ECJ

As a minimum.

If that can’t be achieved then to achieve that would be by just leaving. “No Deal” is a fallacy as there would be a deal, it would just be after we have left....that’s all.

If this subversion of democracy was being undertaken in Central America, Africa or asia we’d be denouncing them as oppressive rogue states governed by despots.

I am sick of the bullshiite, I was a remainer....but this process has turned me into the most hardened leaver.

Just do as you’re Fff’n told.

Look, you can wander into Brexit fantasy land or you can follow the process. The 2016 debate set out a goal and promised, yes promised, that there was no downside and it would be an easy win.

You, along with many others are just being revisionist. I don't care what you are sick of. I don't care whatever you have turned into. I care about my family and I care about the country. Follow the process, follow the promise. The promise was a deal so a deal it is ..

---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

As it prevents the conclusion of a democratic decision.

Also it was negotiated, in so far it was not proposed by the U.K., it was an EU device that we failed to negotiate out.

Incorrect. TM's deal fulfilled all the obligations of the 2016 vote. It was voted down by the ERG. These are the facts.

---------- Post added at 22:31 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The referendum was for leaving or staying in the EU. Boris is perfectly within his rights to take us out.

No deal is better than a bad deal. Heard that one before?

The dystopian view you have been sucked into believing from the EU collaborators will not happen. How can you believe that nonsense? Now they are trying to claim that food rationing will have to be introduced!

Is there nothing this lot won't say to frighten people into believing this claptrap?

I'm surprised that none of these truthtwisters haven't yert claimed that we're all gonna die!

You represent the perfect paradox of the ardent Leave supporter. Regain Democracy by bypassing it. Implement the Will of the People by ignoring it. You deploy shallow tropes without meaning: "No deal is better than a bad deal" .. a vacuous slogan at best.

Your use of cartoon language: "sucked into believing", "EU collaborators", etc. just undermines any rational point you start to make.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Look, you can wander into Brexit fantasy land or you can follow the process. The 2016 debate set out a goal and promised, yes promised, that there was no downside and it would be an easy win.

No, you were obviously watching cbbc at the time.

The propaganda at the time, remember sent out to every household by a pro-Remain government set out many scenarios and invited you to judge them. There were no promises, but there were many claims.

The easiest trade deal in history being one and many others of that ilk. We haven’t even got to that point.

We still haven’t agreed on the Withdrawl agreement so any future agreement at this point is irrelevant.

You, along with many others are just being revisionist.

on the contrary, as I have stated, the proposed outcomes of Brexit were front and centre before the vote. To state otherwise is an outright lie or to be so ignorant as to be irrelevant to the the discussion.

I don't care what you are sick of. I don't care whatever you have turned into. I care about my family and I care about the country.

So do I, I fear for the future of this nation if we can be so ignored when it suits the political class

Follow the process

What’s the process?

follow the promise. The promise was a deal so a deal it is

no doubt you can provide such in any pre-2016 referendum literature- I love to see it

Incorrect. TM's deal fulfilled all the obligations of the 2016 vote. It was voted down by the ERG. These are the facts.

It blatantly didn’t.

How can we leave the Customs Union when there is a clause saying we can’t...........duh

[1andrew1]

From reading Johnson's leaked letter, I suspect we'll end up with a re-branded backstop.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

From reading Johnson's leaked letter, I suspect we'll end up with a re-branded backstop.

It wasn't leaked, he released it to the public.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

From reading Johnson's leaked letter, I suspect we'll end up with a re-branded backstop.

Hopefully, it's the end of the UK without one - although that would be nice to see as well.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Pierre

on the contrary, as I have stated, the proposed outcomes of Brexit were front and centre before the vote. To state otherwise is an outright lie or to be so ignorant as to be irrelevant to the the discussion.

Show me where the Leave campaign proposed No Deal "front and centre" before the vote. I will save you the time & energy, they didn't.

Let agree to differ as we just go round in circles. You have your reality and I have mine.

[nomadking]

And where did the leave(IE the side that won) campaign say remaining at any cost was ok? Or freedom of movement, customs union, having to follow EU rules and the ECJ.


Why do I have to keep pointing this out:-
THERE ISN'T AND NEVER HAS BEEN, A DEAL OF ANY SORT ON OFFER.


The Withdrawal Agreement isn't a deal. It is only supposed to cover less than 2 years until the end of 2020. Come 2021 we would be back to "No Deal". That is unless you count the backstop as some kind of back door illicit deal that we(including Parliament) get no say over.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

You're twisting the truth, it was the imperial college London that released a study in January that claimed up to 12000 extra deaths a year could/would result from leaving, presumably though they're all old, ill and or poor so no one cares about them, no brexit martyr statue, no horst wessel lied for them

I am not twisting the truth. Wherever that claim came from, the Labour Party and the undemocratic remainers who want to ignore the will of the electorate are making these claims as if they were factual. They are not factual at all. They are just opinions touted by people who have no vision of how Brexit can be made to work to the UK's advantage.

All they are doing is attempting to frighten people into putting pressure on the government to ignore the referendum result, and it is highly reprehensible.

---------- Post added at 10:12 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

You represent the perfect paradox of the ardent Leave supporter. Regain Democracy by bypassing it. Implement the Will of the People by ignoring it. You deploy shallow tropes without meaning: "No deal is better than a bad deal" .. a vacuous slogan at best.

Your use of cartoon language: "sucked into believing", "EU collaborators", etc. just undermines any rational point you start to make.

Bullshit. The democratic will of the people was expressed in the referendum and confirmed thereafter in general elections and local government elections. That is your inconvenient truth.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

You're twisting the truth, it was the imperial college London that released a study in January that claimed up to 12000 extra deaths a year could/would result from leaving, presumably though they're all old, ill and or poor so no one cares about them, no brexit martyr statue, no horst wessel lied for them



From the moment Dave opened his mouth this whole debacle is something that wouldn't look out of place in central America, Donny is even cosying up to us and we know how much he loves an unelected despot and I think it's you who can't remember, didn't ending freedom of movement get into that list?

Link

That study was SOLELY based upon the presumption that consumption of fruit and veg would go down.

One problem I foresee with No Deal being seen as the cleanest Brexit is that any future trade deal will likely require some reintegration with the European Union. Whether it's regulation, some laws including special privileges for European citizens or less rigorous customs checks.

What is going to happen when these details come out as part of future trade negotiations?