Brexit

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Exactly! It is incredible how some remainers think, or they would have you believe.

It’s hardly incredible to anticipate partial NHS privatisation to be on the table in future trade deals given our distressed negotiating position. It’s incredible that you can’t see that! However given your right wing ideology I expect you want that, hence your hard Brexit at all costs mentality.

Suggestions on Twitter (yeah, I know) that Brexit Party have done even better than the polling suggested with Remainers not turning up at the polls.

[nomadking]

Define "privatisation". GPs are not NHS employees. Isn't that privatisation? Most "privatisation" took place under Labour. The core concept is "free at the point of use".


When nursing became a degree subject, it is unreasonable for it to be considered different to other degree subjects, especially Medicine.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

Suggestions on Twitter (yeah, I know) that Brexit Party have done even better than the polling suggested with Remainers not turning up at the polls.

Expect the post-mortems for the Conservative party and the Labour party to begin in earnest as the results start coming in throughout the night.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by denphone

Expect the post-mortems for the Conservative party and the Labour party to begin in earnest as the results start coming in throughout the night.

Despite the fact in a general election under FPTP election the Labour Party would perform well with the split of the leave vote.

---------- Post added at 16:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:01 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

Define "privatisation". GPs are not NHS employees. Isn't that privatisation? Most "privatisation" took place under Labour. The core concept is "free at the point of use".


When nursing became a degree subject, it is unreasonable for it to be considered different to other degree subjects, especially Medicine.

I think privatisation is a well known and understood concept that I don't need to define for the purposes of the Brexit thread.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s hardly incredible to anticipate partial NHS privatisation to be on the table in future trade deals given our distressed negotiating position. It’s incredible that you can’t see that! However given your right wing ideology I expect you want that, hence your hard Brexit at all costs mentality.

It's complete speculation on your part, as is your take on my political beliefs. Once again, Brexit is not something that only right wingers want to happen. Plenty of Labour voters also want Brexit, in case you have forgotten.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jfman

I think privatisation is a well known and understood concept that I don't need to define for the purposes of the Brexit thread.

Kings Fund

Private provision of health care services has always been controversial, even though some services, such as dentistry, optical care and pharmacy, have been provided by the private sector for many years and most GP practices are private partnerships.
...
Analysis of the Department of Health’s published accounts shows that the share of spending by NHS commissioners on the private sector was 7.3 per cent of the revenue budget in 2017/18. This compares to 7.7 per cent in 2016/17.

...
Due to changes in definitions, it is difficult to precisely measure changes in the amount spent on private or non-NHS organisations over time.
...
These are not new developments. Both the Blair and Brown governments used private providers to increase patient choice and competition as part of their reform programme, and additional capacity provided by the private sector played a role in improving patients’ access to hospital treatment.

Well known and understood concept?

[OLD BOY]

And it was Tony Blair's PFI scheme for hospitals that increased private sector work carried out for the NHS.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

And it was Tony Blair's PFI scheme for hospitals that increased private sector work carried out for the NHS.

And that will be costing the NHS a fortune over the coming years.

EDIT Did we have a trade deal with the US when that happened or were we still part of the EU and be unable to negotiate a trade deal?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It's complete speculation on your part, as is your take on my political beliefs. Once again, Brexit is not something that only right wingers want to happen. Plenty of Labour voters also want Brexit, in case you have forgotten.

No more speculative than your claim that no deal Brexit will be an immediate huge success. Indeed, there's much analysis to the contrary, such to the extent the present Government wouldn't implement it.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by jfman

No more speculative than your claim that no deal Brexit will be an immediate huge success. Indeed, there's much analysis to the contrary, such to the extent the present Government wouldn't implement it.

12 Days doesn't leave much time to implement especially seeing as parliament won't be sitting for all 12.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by pip08456

12 Days doesn't leave much time to implement especially seeing as parliament won't be sitting for all 12.

By March 31st. That default date where this would all be over allegedly.

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

And that will be costing the NHS a fortune over the coming years.

EDIT Did we have a trade deal with the US when that happened or were we still part of the EU and be unable to negotiate a trade deal?

Conflating two issues there.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by jfman

By March 31st. That default date where this would all be over allegedly.

---------- Post added at 16:28 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------



Conflating two issues there.

No, just combining them. You are the one who said the NHS would be privatised with a US trade deal whilst ignoring the already privatised (many for a number of years) parts already.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

No more speculative than your claim that no deal Brexit will be an immediate huge success. Indeed, there's much analysis to the contrary, such to the extent the present Government wouldn't implement it.

Where is the analysis of the new opportunities available to businesses and how they will take advantage of the changed trading climate? It is the failure of all the forecasts that have been carried out to properly evaluate this that has led to the negative press.

There are some very good examples of relatively small countries that are doing very well indeed, and they are not in the EU, are they?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by pip08456

No, just combining them. You are the one who said the NHS would be privatised with a US trade deal whilst ignoring the already privatised (many for a number of years) parts already.

That's conflating. A US trade deal isn't the only set of circumstances that could bring about further privatisation. It's not an exclusive one though.

---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Where is the analysis of the new opportunities available to businesses and how they will take advantage of the changed trading climate? It is the failure of all the forecasts that have been carried out to properly evaluate this that has led to the negative press.

There are some very good examples of relatively small countries that are doing very well indeed, and they are not in the EU, are they?

If there's any such analysis feel free to share it.