Brexit

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mythica

So the working time directive isn't a benefit?

Ridiculous question, Mythica. We are just as capable of enacting laws that are good for us. More capable, in fact, because UK laws are written more succinctly and do not require the degree of interpretation as EU laws.

EU law is needlessly complex and over the top, requiring companies to have an army of lawyers to interpret them, increasing costs. Which inevitably leads to increased prices.

---------- Post added at 07:46 ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Angua

The washing is necessary for US chicken as it is a cost saver. Their inhumane system of chicken rearing is the problem that chlorine washing is trying to solve (not always successfully).

If there is a problem with hygiene in the US chicken industry, then any trade deal with the US can address this and require appropriate standards to be applied. As long as they were reasonable, there is no reason for the US to object as this would be opening up a whole new market for US farmers.

We could send out our inspectors to check on those standards, just as we do to prevent child labour in the clothing industry.

And for those who do not wish to eat chlorinated chicken for whatever reason, look for the labels and buy alternatives.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Never give up trying eh, just look at Tm's deal coming back for another go

if people couldn't keep on having another go and trying to succeed there wouldn't be any women drivers on the roads.

Except, obviously, a second Referendum...

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Ridiculous question, Mythica. We are just as capable of enacting laws that are good for us. More capable, in fact, because UK laws are written more succinctly and do not require the degree of interpretation as EU laws.

EU law is needlessly complex and over the top, requiring companies to have an army of lawyers to interpret them, increasing costs. Which inevitably leads to increased prices.

---------- Post added at 07:46 ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 ----------



If there is a problem with hygiene in the US chicken industry, then any trade deal with the US can address this and require appropriate standards to be applied. As long as they were reasonable, there is no reason for the US to object as this would be opening up a whole new market for US farmers.

We could send out our inspectors to check on those standards, just as we do to prevent child labour in the clothing industry.

And for those who do not wish to eat chlorinated chicken for whatever reason, look for the labels and buy alternatives.

If we are just as capable then why wasn't it already a law?

[Pierre]

It’s brilliant isn’t it.

I didn’t realise that when when strip through the layers of the argument what Brexit main issue boils down to is ............Chicken.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Angua

The washing is necessary for US chicken as it is a cost saver. Their inhumane system of chicken rearing is the problem that chlorine washing is trying to solve (not always successfully).

It is NOT automatically necessary. Even if it was, it is the end result that matters. If the end result is LESS bugs to multiply, then that is better, isn't it?


The rest of the world doesn't seem to have much of an issue with US chicken, as the US is a major exporter.


In the past the UK has had stricter rules on products. Eg We had stricter rules on UHT milk, and banned UHT milk from France. The EU said we had to accept what to us was sub-standard produce. The EU is about being a cartel, not about raising standards.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It’s brilliant isn’t it.

I didn’t realise that when when strip through the layers of the argument what Brexit main issue boils down to is ............Chicken.

Tbf it's chicken that comes from Trump's America ,if it was from Obama's America it would be fine.

---------- Post added at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Except, obviously, a second Referendum...

Another once in a lifetime referendum before the first one is honoured what kind of message does that send out to the people ?

[Angua]

Originally Posted by nomadking

It is NOT automatically necessary. Even if it was, it is the end result that matters. If the end result is LESS bugs to multiply, then that is better, isn't it?


The rest of the world doesn't seem to have much of an issue with US chicken, as the US is a major exporter.


In the past the UK has had stricter rules on products. Eg We had stricter rules on UHT milk, and banned UHT milk from France. The EU said we had to accept what to us was sub-standard produce. The EU is about being a cartel, not about raising standards.

You do realise that profit is king in the US. They would nail down everything that could prejudice sales of their chicken.

The problem is that chlorine washing is not effective enough at reducing contamination. The bugs can hide under folds of skin, only to start breeding again when conditions permit. This is why ensuring chickens are as salmonella free as possible in the first place is better. US bred chickens live in conditions that spread salmonella, campylobacter & streptococcus.

Washing chicken at home is not recommended as this spreads any contamination further with hidden spray from the washing process.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Angua

You do realise that profit is king in the US. They would nail down everything that could prejudice sales of their chicken.

The problem is that chlorine washing is not effective enough at reducing contamination. The bugs can hide under folds of skin, only to start breeding again when conditions permit. This is why ensuring chickens are as salmonella free as possible in the first place is better. US bred chickens live in conditions that spread salmonella, campylobacter & streptococcus.

Washing chicken at home is not recommended as this spreads any contamination further with hidden spray from the washing process.

Indeed as one should never wash chicken at home as the best way to kill any bugs , etc is by cooking it properly.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Except, obviously, a second Referendum...

I think many bods will have their calculators out on May 24th. To do some sums such as:

% that turned out to vote

% that vote Brexit

% that vote LibDem, Green, Change and to some degree SNP

Then they have to make an assumption of how many Leave supporters would vote Labour and Tory regardless.

Then try and extrapolate that into a referendum result.

It will be interesting to see if the appetite for a 2nd Ref is still so great after the elections, because lose a 2nd Ref and that’s it there’s no debate left or wiggle room to try and engineer a way to stay in.

Therefore why would you campaign for a 2nd Ref if you’re likely to lose it? Or if it’s too close to call? Better to try and thwart Brexit another way.

That said if Remain looks strong enough then a 2nd Ref is most likely a certainty as the spineless parliamentarians will see it as their way out of this.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Then they have to make an assumption of how many Leave supporters would vote Labour and Tory regardless.

Ditto Remainers. With Labour you'll find both sides spinning it as either an endorsement of Remain or Leave such is the ambiguity of Labour's policy.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by denphone

Indeed as one should never chicken at home as the best way to kill any bugs , etc is by cooking it properly.

The safest thing, for our health and the planet, is probably not to eat any meat. But that's probably for another thread

---------- Post added at 10:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

I think many bods will have their calculators out on May 24th. To do some sums such as:

% that turned out to vote

% that vote Brexit

% that vote LibDem, Green, Change and to some degree SNP

Then they have to make an assumption of how many Leave supporters would vote Labour and Tory regardless.

Then try and extrapolate that into a referendum result.

It will be interesting to see if the appetite for a 2nd Ref is still so great after the elections, because lose a 2nd Ref and that’s it there’s no debate left or wiggle room to try and engineer a way to stay in.

Therefore why would you campaign for a 2nd Ref if you’re likely to lose it? Or if it’s too close to call? Better to try and thwart Brexit another way.

That said if Remain looks strong enough then a 2nd Ref is most likely a certainty as the spineless parliamentarians will see it as their way out of this.

Any % for the Brexit/UKIP parties that is less than 50% is a vote to Remain imho.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Angua

You do realise that profit is king in the US. They would nail down everything that could prejudice sales of their chicken.

The problem is that chlorine washing is not effective enough at reducing contamination. The bugs can hide under folds of skin, only to start breeding again when conditions permit. This is why ensuring chickens are as salmonella free as possible in the first place is better. US bred chickens live in conditions that spread salmonella, campylobacter & streptococcus.

Washing chicken at home is not recommended as this spreads any contamination further with hidden spray from the washing process.

If the EU rules are so good, ie washing with water and air, then why is the advice not to wash chicken at home? The study had difficulty find bugs on US chlorinated chicken.


If you sell a dangerous product, you will soon run out of customers. It doesn't make any profit in the longer term.

UK Food Standards Agency.

About four in five cases of campylobacter food poisoning in the UK come from contaminated poultry, especially chicken.
One of the main ways to get and spread campylobacter poisoning is through cross-contamination from raw chicken. For example, washing raw chicken can spread campylobacter by splashing it onto hands, work surfaces, clothing and cooking equipment.

US CDC

Most illnesses likely occur due to eating raw or undercooked poultry, or to eating something that touched it. Some are due to contaminated water, contact with animals, or drinking raw (unpasteurized) milk.

EU Food Standards Agency

Campylobacter is a bacterium that can cause an illness called campylobacteriosis in humans. With over 190,000 human cases annually, this disease is the most frequently reported food-borne illness in the European Union (EU). However, the actual number of cases is believed to be around nine million each year. The cost of campylobacteriosis to public health systems and to lost productivity in the EU is estimated by EFSA to be around EUR 2.4 billion a year.

...
In its assessments, EFSA has found that chickens and chicken meat may directly account for 20-30% of human cases.

So the majority comes from other meats and produce.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The safest thing, for our health and the planet, is probably not to eat any meat. But that's probably for another thread

---------- Post added at 10:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 ----------



Any % for the Brexit/UKIP parties that is less than 50% is a vote to Remain imho.

Good luck with that.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I think many bods will have their calculators out on May 24th. To do some sums such as:

% that turned out to vote

% that vote Brexit

% that vote LibDem, Green, Change and to some degree SNP

Then they have to make an assumption of how many Leave supporters would vote Labour and Tory regardless.

Then try and extrapolate that into a referendum result.

It will be interesting to see if the appetite for a 2nd Ref is still so great after the elections, because lose a 2nd Ref and that’s it there’s no debate left or wiggle room to try and engineer a way to stay in.

Therefore why would you campaign for a 2nd Ref if you’re likely to lose it? Or if it’s too close to call? Better to try and thwart Brexit another way.

That said if Remain looks strong enough then a 2nd Ref is most likely a certainty as the spineless parliamentarians will see it as their way out of this.

Remainers look set to vote Lib Dem and leavers for Farages party.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Remainers look set to vote Lib Dem and leavers for Farages party.

I don't think it's that simple.