Brexit

[denphone]

Originally Posted by jfman

And in elections that matter:

Westminster Voting Intention

LAB: 33% (+1)
CON: 23% (-9)
BXP: 14% (+14)

Via @ComRes,
Changes w/ 5-7 Apr.

Lowest CON vote share in a WM VI poll since 1997...

Looking at that there is plummeting support for the Conservatives which is not surprising given the omnishambles we have witnessed and rising support for the Brexit party while Labour have lost some support to the Brexit party but not as much as the Conservatives have.

[jfman]

You’ve linked to an opinion piece that isn’t evidence based.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Oh, so 'leavers lies' should be taken into account, but not 'remainers lies'. Is that your definition of balance?

Where did I say that, this them and us irrationality is clouding your actual vision now as well as your judgement, what I actually said is none of the liars should get away with it and all should be held to account regardless of whose side they're on, basically for the hard of thinking two wrongs don't make a right

[denphone]

Originally Posted by jfman

You’ve linked to an opinion piece that isn’t evidence based.

By whom? as it reminds me of that old English idiom of "you can't have your cake and eat it"

[jfman]

Originally Posted by denphone

By whom? as it reminds me of that old English idiom of "you can't have your cake and eat it"

Old Boy and his “unbiased” Brexit Central link.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

You’ve linked to an opinion piece that isn’t evidence based.

Exactly.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by jfman

You’ve linked to an opinion piece that isn’t evidence based.

This site will just confirm the very clear evidence of the earlier post in this thread as its a impartial and respected site.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...esult-16-years

[Carth]

Originally Posted by jfman

You’ve linked to an opinion piece that isn’t evidence based.

been happening since the very first 'Brexit' thread on here . . . it's all been 99% whataboutery from both sides

Originally Posted by jfman

And in elections that matter:

Westminster Voting Intention

LAB: 33% (+1)
CON: 23% (-9)
BXP: 14% (+14)

Via @ComRes,
Changes w/ 5-7 Apr.

Lowest CON vote share in a WM VI poll since 1997...

I totally agree that in category terms, Westminster is “elections that matter” and Strasbourg is ... well, not. Kind of surprised to see you admitting it though.

However, there isn’t going to be a Westminster general election until 2022 unless the Tories think they can win one and Labour agrees to dissolve Parliament. There is however going to be a Strasbourg election in May, which is as close as we are going to get to a second referendum on Brexit. Given everything that has happened in our politics this year, I’d say these Euro-elections warrant a one-off, guest appearance in the “elections that matter” category ...

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Chris

I totally agree that in category terms, Westminster is “elections that matter” and Strasbourg is ... well, not. Kind of surprised to see you admitting it though.

However, there isn’t going to be a Westminster general election until 2022 unless the Tories think they can win one and Labour agrees to dissolve Parliament. There is however going to be a Strasbourg election in May, which is as close as we are going to get to a second referendum on Brexit. Given everything that has happened in our politics this year, I’d say these Euro-elections warrant a one-off, guest appearance in the “elections that matter” category ...

People tend to forget the amount of influence the leaders of the 28 nations have when it comes to EU direction of travel.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

I totally agree that in category terms, Westminster is “elections that matter” and Strasbourg is ... well, not. Kind of surprised to see you admitting it though.

However, there isn’t going to be a Westminster general election until 2022 unless the Tories think they can win one and Labour agrees to dissolve Parliament. There is however going to be a Strasbourg election in May, which is as close as we are going to get to a second referendum on Brexit. Given everything that has happened in our politics this year, I’d say these Euro-elections warrant a one-off, guest appearance in the “elections that matter” category ...

I think it's all about the pressure a strong vote for the Brexit Party in the Euros will apply to the current Government.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

Looking at that there is plummeting support for the Conservatives which is not surprising given the omnishambles we have witnessed and rising support for the Brexit party while Labour have lost some support to the Brexit party but not as much as the Conservatives have.

Yes, well it wouldn't have been an omnishambles had Labour honoured its manifesto commitment and voted either for the deal or 'no deal'. Instead, they've just played games and tried to trip up the government at every turn.

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Where did I say that, this them and us irrationality is clouding your actual vision now as well as your judgement, what I actually said is none of the liars should get away with it and all should be held to account regardless of whose side they're on, basically for the hard of thinking two wrongs don't make a right

I know, it is not appropriate that either side should tell bare faced lies, but my earlier post was added to counter Hugh's list of 'leavers' lies' and your comment that I am not interested in balance. Yet that is exactly what I was attempting to do!

But time and time again, remainers say that Brexiteers did not know what they were voting for, and every time they retort 'But we DID know what we were voting for!'. The confusion really does seem to be predominently on the remainer side, and given that they voted remain anyway, the lies that are being complained about had no practical effect other than making the remainers even more entrenched in their views. Whereas, in the main, Brexiteers are completely unmoved.

---------- Post added at 19:31 ---------- Previous post was at 19:27 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Old Boy and his “unbiased” Brexit Central link.

And because it is a link from Brexit Central, it is automatically discredited. Maybe you should actually concentrate and respond to the information contained therein!

But of course, you can't, can you?

Just to repeat, my post was to draw attention to the lies told by the remainers to counter Hugh's list of lies told by the brexiteers.

Touche.

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

This site will just confirm the very clear evidence of the earlier post in this thread as its a impartial and respected site.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...esult-16-years

Although the poll draws attention to the disillusionment of Conservative voters due to Brexit not having been achieved on time, it should not be forgotten that the Brexit Party will also have a severe impact on Labour. The Brexit debate has split both major parties to such a degree that they need to agree between them a way of delivering a proper Brexit without further delay. Time for Corbyn to show some guts and recognise reality. Insisting on the Customs Union will not cut the mustard because it takes away our ability to have our own trade policy on goods and services, which is the only way we can prosper when we leave.

---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Angua

People tend to forget the amount of influence the leaders of the 28 nations have when it comes to EU direction of travel.

It's the EU bureaucracy that put forward the legislation to be voted on, not the member states or MEPs. That is not true democracy, I'm sorry to tell you.

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think it's all about the pressure a strong vote for the Brexit Party in the Euros will apply to the current Government.

When Corbyn finally realises the support for the Brexit Party is also coming from many of his own supporters, he will suddenly realise that a second referendum is superfluous.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But the arguments you made ‘informed choices" on were sub-optimal interpretations of actuality (lies).

Christ this is tiresome, how many times do we have to go over this. Citations for your quotes would have helped although I do recognise most of them.

“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.”

we could, still can, choose whatever path we want if we had a government and Parliament that backed the nation. The fact we have neither doesn’t invalidate the statement.

We were told we would replicate, or improve, all the Trade Deals the E.U. has

“The free trade agreement we will have to do should be one of the easiest in human history,”

It probably would be, but we won’t know until we leave, we haven’t left yet and therefore have not even got to the stage of negotiating an FTA.

“There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market”

an FTA would give us access to th Single Market but see above.

"Post Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else"

Well there wouldn’t be a UK-German deal, The would be a UK-EU deal

David Davis, said that Britain would negotiate individual trade deals with other EU countries. EU member states cannot negotiate individual trade deals with outside countries and instead do so as a bloc of 28.

I’d need a citation for this as David Davies knows how the EU works I’d be very surprised if he said that.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Christ this is tiresome, how many times do we have to go over this. Citations for your quotes would have helped although I do recognise most of them.

we could, still can, choose whatever path we want if we had a government and Parliament that backed the nation. The fact we have neither doesn’t invalidate the statement.



It probably would be, but we won’t know until we leave, we haven’t left yet and therefore have not even got to the stage of negotiating an FTA.

an FTA would give us access to th Single Market but see above.



Well there wouldn’t be a UK-German deal, The would be a UK-EU deal


I’d need a citation for this as David Davies knows how the EU works I’d be very surprised if he said that.

wrong again he has no idea how it worked


David Davis
‏
Verified account

@DavidDavisMP
Follow
Follow @DavidDavisMP

More
The first calling point of the UK's negotiator immediately after #Brexit will not be Brussels, it will be Berlin, to strike a deal

10:50 AM - 26 May 2016

Originally Posted by Pierre

Christ this is tiresome, how many times do we have to go over this. Citations for your quotes would have helped although I do recognise most of them.

we could, still can, choose whatever path we want if we had a government and Parliament that backed the nation. The fact we have neither doesn’t invalidate the statement.



It probably would be, but we won’t know until we leave, we haven’t left yet and therefore have not even got to the stage of negotiating an FTA.

an FTA would give us access to th Single Market but see above.



Well there wouldn’t be a UK-German deal, The would be a UK-EU deal
H - see attachment where David Davis stated it would be a U.K.-Germany deal


I’d need a citation for this as David Davies knows how the EU works I’d be very surprised if he said that.

H - see second attachment and be surprised...