Shootings at 2 New Zealand Mosques

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you embed your replies in someone else's then this happens

As to your point: if you generalise then, as I mentioned, you can fall into the historical trap I outlined.

You talk about "incompatible cultures". This has no real world meaning as it is too coarse grained to apply in any meaningful sense. It is the Islamist ideology that is the danger here not the Muslim population per se. This distinction must always be made ..

---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I don't see the relevance of this thread and it doesn't address Chris's point that you cannot blame the victims of crimes. And, you could cut and paste "Christian" in place of "Muslim" in that sentence if you wanted to.

---------- Post added at 11:45 ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 ----------

Not all Christians,Hindus,Sikhs,Buddhists are homogeneous and they all have their dissidents within their religion.Islam or Muslims are no different and to lump everyone in a religious group as having the same viewpoint and attitudes is very,very simplistic.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you embed your replies in someone else's then this happens

As to your point: if you generalise then, as I mentioned, you can fall into the historical trap I outlined.

You talk about "incompatible cultures". This has no real world meaning as it is too coarse grained to apply in any meaningful sense. It is the Islamist ideology that is the danger here not the Muslim population per se. This distinction must always be made ..

Where I used the word "culture" please substitute "ideology" where the context permits.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Not all Christians,Hindus,Sikhs,Buddhists are homogeneous and they all have their dissidents within their religion.Islam or Muslims are no different and to lump everyone in a religious group as having the same viewpoint and attitudes is very,very simplistic.

Whilst this is absolutely true nobody in their right mind could ignore the fact that Islam appears to attract far more murderous nutters than any other faith. For whatever reason this part of the problem never seems to be properly addressed by anyone.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Russ

Whilst this is absolutely true nobody in their right mind could ignore the fact that Islam appears to attract far more murderous nutters than any other faith. For whatever reason this part of the problem never seems to be properly addressed by anyone.

… lest the race card gets played.

[Russ]

Islam isn't a race.

[jfman]

The vast majority of Muslims are just boring ordinary folk doing boring ordinary stuff. Going to pray, going to work, going to shops, feeding the family. The same boring ordinary stuff as everyone else.

It’s ridiculous to assert that some clash of cultures caused anything like this. A racist psychopath with access to weapons did.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Russ

Islam isn't a race.

Figure of speech, as if you didn't know.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Russ

Whilst this is absolutely true nobody in their right mind could ignore the fact that Islam appears to attract far more murderous nutters than any other faith. For whatever reason this part of the problem never seems to be properly addressed by anyone.

Not quite true. The Quilliam Foundation plays an active role in anti-Islamist discussions. Maajid Nawaz, on LBC Radio and a founder member of this Foundation also discusses this regularly on his phone in show.

It is the Government that is not doing enough to promote education & discussion on this important distinction between being Islamist and being Muslim. Maybe this has something to do with the money this country, specifically the powerful armament manufacturers, receives from arm sales to Saudi Arabia, clandestine backers of ISIS.

Originally Posted by jfman

The vast majority of Muslims are just boring ordinary folk doing boring ordinary stuff. Going to pray, going to work, going to shops, feeding the family. The same boring ordinary stuff as everyone else.

It’s ridiculous to assert that some clash of cultures caused anything like this. A racist psychopath with access to weapons did.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Not quite true. The Quilliam Foundation plays an active role in anti-Islamist discussions. Maajid Nawaz, on LBC Radio and a founder member of this Foundation also discusses this regularly on his phone in show.

It is the Government that is not doing enough to promote education & discussion on this important distinction between being Islamist and being Muslim. Maybe this has something to do with the money this country, specifically the powerful armament manufacturers, receives from arm sales to Saudi Arabia, clandestine backers of ISIS.

I think it is true. Quilliam does do a lot of research but it does seem to be only them.

Originally Posted by Russ

I think it is true. Quilliam does do a lot of research but it does seem to be only them.

The Governments 'Prevent' program also exists to try and combat radicalisation at an early stage albeit it's focused on all types of extremism.

[Russ]

It would fall short of focussing on why Islam attracts the nutters though but then again we don’t know what work they do behind closed doors.

Originally Posted by Russ

I think it is true. Quilliam does do a lot of research but it does seem to be only them.

And the Muslim Council of Britain launched a programme last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ive-to-prevent

Unfortunately, bad things make good headlines, while preventative efforts are treated as low profile events by the media.

---------- Post added at 09:01 ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ

It would fall short of focussing on why Islam attracts the nutters though but then again we don’t know what work they do behind closed doors.

Again, ”Terrorist Muslims" incite fear and make good headlines, whilst stories like these are relegated to the inside pages/not reported/downplayed by some media.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47645863

Far-right extremism poses the biggest security threat to northern England, a counter-terrorism expert has warned.

Speaking anonymously to BBC News, the former Home Office specialist said the threat of right-wing terrorism was not being taken seriously.

Last year, the highest number of right-wing referrals to counter-terrorism programme Prevent came from the north.

The government said it recognised far-right extremism was an emerging threat.
However, the UK's security services said extreme Islamist-based terrorism remained the country's most pressing national security concern.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8794476.html

Former members include a man who plotted to murder a Labour MP, another who tried to behead an Asian man in Tesco, a teenager who tried to make a pipe bomb and an extremist who planned a massacre at an LGBT+ pride event.

The proportion of far-right terror suspects has been rising in the UK, and the number of people referred to the Prevent programme over suspected far-right extremism has rocketed by 36 per cent in a year.

In the year to September, 40 per cent of terror suspects arrested were white, 33 per cent were Asian, 12 per cent were black and 14 per cent were recorded as other.

Police say 14 Islamist terror plots and four from far-right extremists have been foiled since the Westminster attack in March 2017.

[Russ]

That’s a preventative measure which is invaluable of course. But none of these appear to answer the question of *why* Islam attracts such a murderous element.

Originally Posted by Russ

That’s a preventative measure which is invaluable of course. But none of these appear to answer the question of *why* Islam attracts such a murderous element.

Wherever there is a dictator seeking to radicalise people to his cause, or a community leader outraged at oppression (whether perceived or real), they will seek to harness the ideology or beliefs of the community to their cause.

Islam exists in many places where those factors presently exist.