Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by Chris

The IMF thinks the U.K’s economy will grow faster than Germany and Italy over the next two years (and be on a par with France). Joint 3rd in the G7 after the USA and Canada. #despitebrexit.

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/...com-TW-WEO0119

Although they do make clear there is a lot of uncertainty but it assumes we reach a deal on Brexit and enter the transition period (i.e for the next two years we'll still be operating under the single market).

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Although they do make clear there is a lot of uncertainty but it assumes we reach a deal on Brexit and enter the transition period (i.e for the next two years we'll still be operating under the single market).

So that projection is based on our still following EU rules, making contributions and accepting freedom of movement. Sounds like BINO to me.
Logical conclusion being that if we keep doing all the above we will enjoy good growth.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s not about money for some, you’re right.

It’s essentially racism. The “full picture” as you put it simply the fact they are foreign.

Not everyone born in this country is a net contributor, so that’s a red herring. Impacts on poverty, housing or the NHS are sideshows to the reality that austerity is cutting public services as that’s Conservative ideology.

The fact that not everyone born here isn't a net contributor isn't relevant with regards to immigrants coming here and doing the same thing!

I think the main resentment is that people see some immigrants as coming here and taking away resources; by definition they will be foreign, but that isn't the problem, it's them moving over here that is.

I think that UKIP & Leave gained a lot of votes due to this. These voters aren't the types that would ever consider voting for the BNP etc as they don't consider themselves as racist, but have had enough of unfettered immigration.

Your last point has some merit as both have contributed to overstretching public services.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The fact that we readily include foreign words and phrases into our culture is yet another example of the fact we are anything but xenophobic.

That's a bit of a stretch. Our language isn't our culture.

One reason that the UK is attractive to foreign workers is that they tend to speak English as a second language rather than French or German.

As regards our culture vs Europe, as I've said before, we look alike but don't think alike.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

The fact that not everyone born here isn't a net contributor isn't relevant with regards to immigrants coming here and doing the same thing!

It’s exactly the same. That’s the way taxation and public spending work.

I think the main resentment is that people see some immigrants as coming here and taking away resources; by definition they will be foreign, but that isn't the problem, it's them moving over here that is.

Which isn’t evidence based.

I think that UKIP & Leave gained a lot of votes due to this. These voters aren't the types that would ever consider voting for the BNP etc as they don't consider themselves as racist, but have had enough of unfettered immigration.

Your last point has some merit as both have contributed to overstretching public services.

I agree racism and xenophobia get out the vote for UKIP and Vote Leave. I also agree many racists lack the self awareness to realise they are racist.

“I’m not a racist, but...”, as they say.

[Sephiroth]

The definition of "racist" varies between people.

What's more, some people associate valid concerns over specific ethnicities as racism.

Racism is a toxic topic and xenophobia is illogical and something quite different.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

As regards our culture vs Europe, as I've said before, we look alike but don't think alike.

We largely do though. The differences between British and most European cultures are quite superficial. Mostly similar values, shared history and a Judeo-Christian background. You don't have huge cultural disconnects if you're in Europe, talking to European people, eating European food or so on.

The differences people usually cite are small and involve stereotypes. I.E Germans are more logical or Southern Europeans more laid back.

If you're somebody coming from Asia the difference between Asian culture and European culture would be more pronounced than the different between British and European culture. They would lump us in with the continent quite easily.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

So Plan B is Plan A again ! .

Must be a policy of ' it'll sort itself out somehow.... '.

She playing a page out of the EU’s playbook.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

She playing a page out of the EU’s playbook.

How so? Looks to me like Groundhog May, as some of the papers are terming it.

[djfunkdup]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

How so? Looks to me like Groundhog May, as some of the papers are terming it.

If you were half decent at Chess it would be apparent what she was doing

[ianch99]

JC takes another step, reluctantly kicking and screaming, towards a second referendum:

Labour calls for vote in Commons on holding second referendum

Labour has said the Commons should be able to vote on whether to hold a second referendum in an amendment the party submitted on Monday night to Theresa May’s Brexit update.

He still has wiggle room but he is being slowly and grudgingly pushed toward this position.

[heero_yuy]

Latest ICM opinion poll:



dk-comp-graphic-brexit-poll.jpg

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That's a bit of a stretch. Our language isn't our culture.

One reason that the UK is attractive to foreign workers is that they tend to speak English as a second language rather than French or German.

As regards our culture vs Europe, as I've said before, we look alike but don't think alike.

Are you saying that foreign words and phrase haven't been incorporated into British culture. As they are foreign, it can hardly be classed as included in the English language. The French constantly complain about English words being included in their culture/language.

As the French language police crackdown on more
Anglicizations - this time it's 'fake news', here's a look at
20 of the most annoying English words that should be kicked out
of the French language according to a Gallic author.",

,

The Académie, a council of 40 writers and artists, is entrusted with protecting French from “Anglo-Saxon” attacks and writing an official dictionary, of which the latest unfinished version began in 1992.

One of its tasks is to come up with French equivalents to unwanted English words that slip into French – for example turning “email” into “courriel”.

---------- Post added at 11:20 ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

JC takes another step, reluctantly kicking and screaming, towards a second referendum:

Labour calls for vote in Commons on holding second referendum



He still has wiggle room but he is being slowly and grudgingly pushed toward this position.

So would this 2nd vote be a "meaningful" one, or would that depend on the outcome?


As the recent Commons vote demonstrated, it's easy to have a nonsense question that both sides disagree with, thereby distorting the outcome of the vote. There were those on the remain side and those on the leave side that voted against the proposals.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Latest ICM opinion poll:



Attachment 27708

Would that be the same poll where 26% thought that ‘no deal’ meant staying in the EU?

---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

So Plan B is Plan A again ! .

Must be a policy of ' it'll sort itself out somehow.... '.

Plan B is TM’s version of the British abroad - say Plan A again but slower and louder, with lots of hand gestures...

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Would that be the same poll where 26% thought that ‘no deal’ meant staying in the EU?

Sounds like 26% are a bit thick.