Brexit (Old)

[1andrew1]

Many leavers hoped that German business might come to our rescue and persuade the powers to be of the right course of action to take in the course of Brexit. The "they need us more than we need them" belief.

Well, they might be right after all!

Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, the new head of Angela Merkel’s party, is the most senior German politician yet to openly appeal to the UK to abandon Brexit. She is among more than two dozen leading figures from German politics, industry and the arts to announce an “unprecedented” cross-party campaign to persuade Britain “from the bottom of our hearts” to remain.
Their affectionate letter to The Times marks a significant shift in Berlin’s tone. It argues that the two countries share an indissoluble bond thanks to Britain’s role in rebuilding Germany after the Second World War.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...tain-55c9tchl2

In today’s Times letters.

It’s a nice sentiment, but the first paragraph occurred in the 30-odd years before we joined the EU and they can still come here and enjoy a pie, a pint and a panto after we leave.

So unless this letter is somehow a coded plea for us not to leave them alone with the French, I’m unmoved ...

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In all seriousness I’m not sure what it’s meant to achieve. If they think the abandonment of Brexit is likely, or even on the table, then a very senior German politician is misreading the situation in Britain very badly indeed. If they think that Britain’s role in forcibly bringing Nazi Germany to its senses and then assisting in its post-war rehabilitation is in any way connected, in the British psyche, with our membership of the EU, then for all the affection and sentiment in their letter they really don’t understand us at all.

[Sephiroth]

Correct.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

This must surely reduce our chances of leaving the EU on 29th March. That Anglo-Saxon saying "Couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery comes to mind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46917999

Meanwhile, fellow leaver BoJo has been caught out for lying to the public. A ploy to aid his prime ministerial ambitions or a genuine memory lapse?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46926119

If Turkey isn't going to join the EU, why has the EU given them over 9 billion Euros plus other billions as part of preparations for it? Turkey has pushed for visa-free travel. That is freedom of movement in all but name.
EU Auditors report,

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
I. EU financial assistance planned for Turkey from 2007 until 2020 through the
Instrument for Pre-accession Assistance (IPA) mounts to over 9 billion euros.
Our objective was to assess the design and effectiveness of the IPA to Turkey,
the purpose of which is to align the candidate country with the acquis and
strengthen its administrative capacity.

Another €6bn to Turkey.

Countries including Germany and the Netherlands are pushing for the European Commission to fund all of the €3bn payment due as part of a deal signed with Ankara in 2016. An earlier €3bn was two-thirds financed by EU member states

Then there's the likes of Ukraine being lined up.

All measures combined could bring overall support of €11 billion over the next seven years from the EU budget and the international financial institutions, including up to €1.4 billion in grants from the Member States

[Gavin78]

I saw in the papers from a few days ago that the EU could lose 500 billion from a no deal. not sure how true that is.

[Sephiroth]

All the more reason for no deal.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If Turkey isn't going to join the EU, why has the EU given them over 9 billion Euros plus other billions as part of preparations for it? Turkey has pushed for visa-free travel. That is freedom of movement in all but name.
EU Auditors report,

Another €6bn to Turkey.

Then there's the likes of Ukraine being lined up.

I'm not sure you read the article I linked to. Boris denied mentioning Turkey whereas he did. The point is about his honesty or memory.

---------- Post added at 04:13 ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 ----------

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I saw in the papers from a few days ago that the EU could lose 500 billion from a no deal. not sure how true that is.

They could gain 500 billion. It depends on the period of time involved and the formula; we'll all lose from a no-deal initially and the UK long term.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

This must surely reduce our chances of leaving the EU on 29th March. That Anglo-Saxon saying "Couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery comes to mind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46917999

Meanwhile, fellow leaver BoJo has been caught out for lying to the public. A ploy to aid his prime ministerial ambitions or a genuine memory lapse?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46926119

At present due to our EU membership Liam Fox cannot finalise any free trade deal with any other country.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm not sure you read the article I linked to. Boris denied mentioning Turkey whereas he did. The point is about his honesty or memory.

---------- Post added at 04:13 ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 ----------


They could gain 500 billion. It depends on the period of time involved and the formula; we'll all lose from a no-deal initially and the UK long term.

Whatever way you look at it, remaining in the EU will mean that we have to finance, feed, house, etc hundreds of thousands(actually 1m+) more people. Why is the EU interfering in the "democratic" systems of foreign countries, and why are we expected to pay out billions for the privilege? Foreign governments are being propped up by the EU. Their economies are being made to look better by all the free money they get. That in turn makes the incumbent government look better than it is.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If Turkey isn't going to join the EU, why has the EU given them over 9 billion Euros plus other billions as part of preparations for it? Turkey has pushed for visa-free travel. That is freedom of movement in all but name.
EU Auditors report,

Another €6bn to Turkey.

Then there's the likes of Ukraine being lined up.

I have no idea why the EU are giving Turkey money, but given their 2018 decision on the death penalty, they have ruled out complying with the ECJ, which is a prerequisite of EU membership.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Angua

I have no idea why the EU are giving Turkey money, but given their 2018 decision on the death penalty, they have ruled out complying with the ECJ, which is a prerequisite of EU membership.

Still doesn't change the fact that billions of the EU budget are being used to artificially prop up foreign governments.


All in preparation for those countries to send us their criminals and other assorted dross. That could and would in some ways, still happen with the current EU proposals to the UK. Continued freedom of movement is part of the withdrawal agreement.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Still doesn't change the fact that billions of the EU budget are being used to artificially prop up foreign governments.


All in preparation for those countries to send us their criminals and other assorted dross. That could and would in some ways, still happen with the current EU proposals to the UK. Continued freedom of movement is part of the withdrawal agreement.

That's a red herring distraction point. Do you think Boris lied?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's a red herring distraction point. Do you think Boris lied?

The current things that are happening with the EU are what matters. Discussion about that buffoon Boris lying is a distraction.


The important stuff is that Parliament is subverting the Referendum result and that is seriously damaging our politics.

The move by Parliament to force away the no deal option destroys our negotiating hand - although the EU might just be pig-headed enough to stand firm and whistle for most of their £39 billion.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The current things that are happening with the EU are what matters. Discussion about that buffoon Boris lying is a distraction.


The important stuff is that Parliament is subverting the Referendum result and that is seriously damaging our politics.

The move by Parliament to force away the no deal option destroys our negotiating hand - although the EU might just be pig-headed enough to stand firm and whistle for most of their £39 billion.

If we choose to leave with no deal we will end up losing much more in terms of trust from the rest of the world. Negotiations on the trade deals we will need, will end up being less favourable as a result.

Would you trust the country who runs away from their responsibilities by burying their heads in the sand, not being grown up enough to negotiate some sort of deal. Would any other country trust our word, or would they know our desperation and screw us down as hard as they could.

Leaving with no deal would leave us with no choice but the sharks.