Brexit (Old)

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by denphone

The programme was already factored in to their schedules but alas because the vote has been cancelled until a new date has been given one suspects we might be having another programme possibly sometime in the future on Brexit.

Something else was due to be shown, I can't remember what (Panorama?), but I noticed last night that the V6 had picked this up.

At the end of the programme they said that Corbyn was trying to get the vote to go ahead tomorrow and that some Tory MP's were in agreement with him!

I thought it was a well balanced programme, it broadly reflected many opposing views/points raised on here.

[Sephiroth]

But the programme didn't deal with the underlying issues around the EU that are getting lost in the political dogfight. To remind:

1. The EU is rigged for the benefit of Germany (Euro) and France (CAP);

2. The UK is the 2nd largest net contributor to the EU budget;

3. "Ever Closer Union" is the EU's mantra = Deutschland über Alles;

4. The perfidious Irish are using the GFA to protect their exports;

5. The Euro is not sufficiently underpinned - see what'll happen when Italy fails;

6. Remember the EU and Greece.

In the meantime Parliament fiddles while Brexit burns.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But the programme didn't deal with the underlying issues around the EU that are getting lost in the political dogfight. To remind:

1. The EU is rigged for the benefit of Germany (Euro) and France (CAP);

2. The UK is the 2nd largest net contributor to the EU budget;

3. "Ever Closer Union" is the EU's mantra = Deutschland über Alles;

4. The perfidious Irish are using the GFA to protect their exports;

5. The Euro is not sufficiently underpinned - see what'll happen when Italy fails;

6. Remember the EU and Greece.

In the meantime Parliament fiddles while Brexit burns.

I always enjoy reading the contradiction that the EU is either weak and crumbling at the same time as being all mighty and powerful, ready to take over the world if we’d don’t stop it now.

Other than that most of your post is highly objectionable. The wartime rhetoric we would be better off without.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jfman

I always enjoy reading the contradiction that the EU is either weak and crumbling at the same time as being all mighty and powerful, ready to take over the world if we’d don’t stop it now.

A bit like the contradiction of sending in Jeremy Corbyn to get a better deal as the friendly approach works better or sending in a Brexiter as a hardline approach will work.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

But the programme didn't deal with the underlying issues around the EU that are getting lost in the political dogfight. To remind:

1. The EU is rigged for the benefit of Germany (Euro) and France (CAP);

2. The UK is the 2nd largest net contributor to the EU budget;

3. "Ever Closer Union" is the EU's mantra = Deutschland über Alles;

4. The perfidious Irish are using the GFA to protect their exports;

5. The Euro is not sufficiently underpinned - see what'll happen when Italy fails;

6. Remember the EU and Greece.

In the meantime Parliament fiddles while Brexit burns.

Originally Posted by jfman

I always enjoy reading the contradiction that the EU is either weak and crumbling at the same time as being all mighty and powerful, ready to take over the world if we’d don’t stop it now.

Other than that most of your post is highly objectionable. The wartime rhetoric we would be better off without.

This is where you show your true irritating colours. You are the one deploying rhetoric with your "wartime" observation.

You are obstinately refusing to acknowledge what is right before your very eyes. Everything I've written in my post is true.

As to your ridiculous assertion of a contradiction in my words - the EU is indeed a particularly vulnerable edifice due to the lack of substance in the Euro beyond the Bank of Germany. As long as the edifice hasn't crumbled, Germany remains strong and hegemonic within those walls.

There is no doubt, for example, of the CAP being an institution designed for France's benefit to the detriment of the other agro-countries.

There is no doubt of the CFP being in everyone's interest except the UK's - stuff given away by our preposterous politicians in the past.

Macron has shown his true colours by threatening to keep us in the Backstop if we don't let him into our fishing waters big time.

Varadkar is a perfidious schemer, cynically using the GFA to protect his economic interests (and his political future). He forgets that we immediately came to Ireland's rescue in 2008 with a low interest £7 billion loan at the time of the economic crash.

How dare you describe my facts as objectionable.

[jfman]

None of what you post is true. We get it, you don’t like the Germans because of World War 2, or the Irish for gaining their independence from the Empire.

However these outdated views of the world are irrelevant today, when economic co-operation and trade are for the mutual benefit of everyone. However we miss the good old days when we wrote the rules, and Britannia ruled the waves.

Those days are gone. Long gone.

We are not at war, have some perspective here. Nothing about this is World War 2. People are not dying en-masse and we are not facing a existential threat.

EU or not Britain needs to view it's future and the world outside of the prism of WW2 and Empire.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

We are not at war, have some perspective here. Nothing about this is World War 2. People are not dying en-masse and we are not facing a existential threat.

EU or not Britain needs to view it's future and the world outside of the prism of WW2 and Empire.

Unfortunately it has proven itself incapable. The world owes us something for nothing, we deserve to be returned to our rightful place.

What we forget many of the war crimes and genocides committed in the name of empire, and the destruction of economies to serve our own.

[techguyone]

I think you'll find the 'Empire ' is long gone, you just seeemd to be poised for an excuse to roll out the 'evil Empire' chesnut, yet all that Seph posted is fact and current, not a remnant from Victorias time.

You need to give your head a wobble pal, you're out of order, stick to the topic which is BREXIT not some bs about your biased and jaundiced views of the evils of the British Empire

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

None of what you post is true. We get it, you don’t like the Germans because of World War 2, [SEPH]: Rubbish. I like Germans. I don't like German political hegemony, taking advantage of the EU institutions.

or the Irish for gaining their independence from the Empire. [SEPH]: Rubbish. I've never said anything of the sort nor implied it. I'm criticising the perfidious Varadkar, not the lovely Irish people.

However these outdated views of the world are irrelevant today, when economic co-operation and trade are for the mutual benefit of everyone. [SEPH]: The EU is not a mutual benefit society. It is a Franco-German domination machine which you can see before your very eyes. Btw, neither is the EU the "world" as you have ascribed to my views.


However we miss the good old days when we wrote the rules, and Britannia ruled the waves. [SEPH]: Irrelevant rhetoric.

Those days are gone. Long gone.

---------- Post added at 09:08 ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Unfortunately it has proven itself incapable. The world owes us something for nothing, we deserve to be returned to our rightful place.

What we forget many of the war crimes and genocides committed in the name of empire, and the destruction of economies to serve our own.

I'm glad we've brought out your true colours for everyone to see.

Brexit is an excellent idea, to rid ourselves of being bound to a corrupt, hegemonic institution.

And since you mention war crimes .....

[Mr K]

Love your neighbour Seph old chap, they aren't 'all out to get us' with their perfidious hegemony.....

---------- Post added at 09:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 ----------

Can see where this is all going, delay as long as possible, so there is only one deal or chaos possible. Risky strategy...

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

---------- Post added at 09:08 ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 ----------



I'm glad we've brought out your true colours for everyone to see.

Brexit is an excellent idea, to rid ourselves of being bound to a corrupt, hegemonic institution.

And since you mention war crimes .....

It’s hardly my true colours to recognise the tainted history of our country. If we think we will go out to the world who will welcome us with open arms we have another thing coming.

As far as your posts go Germany is in it for itself, Macron is in it for himself, Varadkar is in it for himself.

Why won’t the rest of the world be in it for itself? Because it will bow to our Anglo-Saxon superiority?

Your misunderstanding appears to be that capitalism creates rational actors looking to achieve some kind of economic edge. Any collective involves sacrifice by some for a greater total gain. In our case the gain is easy access to a workforce our businesses rely upon and a market to sell goods into.

Germany is by far the biggest net contributor to the EU and you seem to think it should have less influence, yet we give Ireland a low interest loan and it should do our bidding? The inconsistencies are staggering.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Love your neighbour Seph old chap, they aren't 'all out to get us' with their perfidious hegemony.....

---------- Post added at 09:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 ----------

Can see where this is all going, delay as long as possible, so there is only one deal or chaos possible. Risky strategy...

Meaningful vote on the 28 march ?

[djfunkdup]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Meaningful vote on the 28 march ?

[lightmyfire]

So I voted out. Not because I have any issues with any of the people in Europe but because I would prefer the MOD EDIT. in our Parliament control our destiny rather than those in Brussels. Worryingly though the standard of front bench politics (there are a lot of great back benchers of all parties) is the worse I have ever seen. What with these pathetic lot in power and no viable alternative I do worry about our future.

But the most frightening thing to me is the subliminal indoctrination that media/social media are ramming down our throats because it is against all of their interests for us to get out.

Totally agree that no one owes us anything in this world and it is going to be a tough slog.

BUT - as someone who studied Economics and how we labeled the Agricultural and Industrial revolutions maybe we are looking at the next phase, call it the Service Sector Revolution and maybe we should be pioneering in that.

p.s. some great comments on this thread by the way

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