Brexit (Old) - Page 301

Sephiroth · 08-12-2018, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Once again a failure to understand what “enshrined in law” actually means.

It’s entirely democratic that everyone uses any approach (within civil and criminal law, we used to think this was a given until the Leave campaign) to justify their cause, and indeed bring it forward at every general election they wish.

Please don't unjustifiably insult me. For this case, "Enshrined in law" means, in ordinary language, that statute states the date of leaving the EU. For example reported in:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44623619

Parliament could repeal the EU Withdrawal Act, though I'm not sure of the mechanism other than specific primary legislation (rather than an amendment to a motion).

jfman · 08-12-2018, 10:14

Emergency legislation could be used in a very short timescale if there’s the will in Parliament. There are a number of instances of rushed legislation. Here are two examples:

Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1974 was announced on 25th November 1974, passing on the 29th of the same month. More recently the Criminal Justice (Terrorism and Conspiracy) Act 1998 passed in just two days during summer recess.

As soon as it gets framed as a national security/civil contingencies manner due process goes out the window.

Sephiroth · 08-12-2018, 10:19

Fanciful.

jfman · 08-12-2018, 10:24

I don’t see it as fanciful. If Parliament wants to extend article 50 or have a second referendum they aren’t going to sit at the beginning of March and go “ach let’s just leave we’ve run out of time, it takes about six weeks to introduce primary legislation”.

They will make it work, if that’s what’s they want to do. It’s the Parliamentary arithmetic I’d be most worried about, not the clock.

Mr K · 08-12-2018, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

If Remain had won the first Referendum in a 52/48 ratio and the Leave camp bitched for a second Referendum, the Remainers would pretend to be affronted etc.

Didn't Farage say before the result that if it was 52:48, it wouldn't be the end of the matter ? It wasn't a decisive, opinion has shifted, and people really don't know what they were going to get with a Brexit vote. Incredibly they still don't.

Trouble is, as Brexiters have eventually realised, all exit options are considerably worse than we have now. This has caused them to steadily implode in a puff of reality...

Sephiroth · 08-12-2018, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

I don’t see it as fanciful. If Parliament wants to extend article 50 or have a second referendum they aren’t going to sit at the beginning of March and go “ach let’s just leave we’ve run out of time, it takes about six weeks to introduce primary legislation”.

They will make it work, if that’s what’s they want to do. It’s the Parliamentary arithmetic I’d be most worried about, not the clock.

Well, of course you don't. You're going off into the realms of imagination, finding devices the Parliament might use to repeal Brexit because time is short. It's the government of the day that has to introduce primary legislation.

If you're mooting that the Tory led government will repeal Brexit then that really is fanciful.

**Mick** · 08-12-2018, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

Didn't Farage say before the result that if it was 52:48, it wouldn't be the end of the matter ? It wasn't a decisive, opinion has shifted, and people really don't know what they were going to get with a Brexit vote. Incredibly they still don't.

Trouble is, as Brexiters have eventually realised, all exit options are considerably worse than we have now. This has caused them to steadily implode in a puff of reality...

Nope the exit options are project fear from pathetic Remainers in Government/Civil Service.

However- It has done no such thing. In actual fact, I’ve seen a lot of Remainers come out, who’ve accepted they lost the Referendum and have now seen the EU’s true colours during the negotiations and would now vote leave in second referendum, they also cherish true democracy and that the overriding principle is that it is this that actually matters.

I absolutely know of no leave voter who I personally know, who’s changed their mind and still want to leave more than ever.

Remainers are likelier to get more than they bargained for when leave wins again.

1andrew1 · 08-12-2018, 12:00

The exit analysis spans a number of organisations and people who can't all be Remainers...otherwise Remain would have won the referendum!

They include Leaver Chris Grayling's warnings and planning on the channel ports.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/br...ing-bbc-video/

https://www.theguardian.com/business...chris-grayling

Carth · 08-12-2018, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The exit analysis . . .

stopped reading right there.

polls/analysis/statistics/forecasts . . .

jfman · 08-12-2018, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Well, of course you don't. You're going off into the realms of imagination, finding devices the Parliament might use to repeal Brexit because time is short. It's the government of the day that has to introduce primary legislation.

If you're mooting that the Tory led government will repeal Brexit then that really is fanciful.

Private Member’s Bills?

Literally any MP, including opposition MPs, can introduce legislation.

pip08456 · 08-12-2018, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Private Member’s Bills?

Literally any MP, including opposition MPs, can introduce legislation.

Your problem is that the two Acts you cited had little (if any)opposition.

This would not apply to any attempt to repeal the EU withdrawal act.

Sephiroth · 08-12-2018, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Private Member’s Bills?

Literally any MP, including opposition MPs, can introduce legislation.

There are parliamentary standing orders that govern how Private Members' Bills get priority over other business.

Have you thought this through fully or are you on a wing and a prayer?

jfman · 08-12-2018, 13:33

Come March there may be little opposition on the basis of returning the question to the people in a further referendum.

One thing that’s clear is Parliament is against no deal. The idea it will be passive and “run out of time” is in fact fanciful.

If framed as a national security issue it can easily be done. Private Member’s Bills cannot be dismissed if they have support. Although I believe the Government would introduce the legislation to avoid a confidence vote anyway.

pip08456 · 08-12-2018, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Come March there may be little opposition on the basis of returning the question to the people in a further referendum.

One thing that’s clear is Parliament is against no deal. The idea it will be passive and “run out of time” is in fact fanciful.

If framed as a national security issue it can easily be done. Private Member’s Bills cannot be dismissed if they have support. Although I believe the Government would introduce the legislation to avoid a confidence vote anyway.

Come March there may not be little opposition.

Sephiroth · 08-12-2018, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Come March there may be little opposition on the basis of returning the question to the people in a further referendum.

One thing that’s clear is Parliament is against no deal. The idea it will be passive and “run out of time” is in fact fanciful.

If framed as a national security issue it can easily be done. Private Member’s Bills cannot be dismissed if they have support. Although I believe the Government would introduce the legislation to avoid a confidence vote anyway.

Read the Parliamentary Standing Orders regarding Private Members' Bills.