Brexit (Old)

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

Utter bollocks!!!

None of them have died? If they can achieve immortality I’d hope they’d be more likely to get work than unskilled EU nationals.

Originally Posted by jfman

None of them have died? If they can achieve immortality I’d hope they’d be more likely to get work than unskilled EU nationals.

I said utter bollocks because you have no reasonable way, of any kind that what you are saying is even remotely true and it is actually very immoral to even want that to be true, pathetic!!!

[jfman]

According to the ONS:

“There were 607,172 deaths registered in the UK in 2017, an increase of 1.7% from 597,206 in 2016 and the highest number registered annually since 2003.”

They can’t all have voted remain/abstained. The electorate in theory could be divergent by about 1.2 million deaths and a similar number of births in 1998-2000 joining the electorate. For a wafer thin referendum there has to come a point where it’s simply “out of date” as a measure of the will of the living people.

Originally Posted by jfman

According to the ONS:

“There were 607,172 deaths registered in the UK in 2017, an increase of 1.7% from 597,206 in 2016 and the highest number registered annually since 2003.”

They can’t all have voted remain/abstained. The electorate in theory could be divergent by about 1.2 million deaths and a larger similar number of births in 1998-2000 joining the electorate. For a wafer thin referendum there has to come a point where it’s simply “out of date” as a measure of the will of the living people.

So this is how pathetic and desperate you are that you want the old leavers dead and out of the way, so their vote is invalid ?

SAD!!!

[jfman]

I’m just stating a fact, apologies for being blunt in doing so, and certainly I haven’t wished anyone dead. The electorate would have been different by about 2.4 million people net at Brexit day if it had to happen.

I’m neither desperate to leave or remain, but I’ve outlined what I think the politicians are planning and what would be necessary to leave the EU.

Originally Posted by Mick

That is not true. They can debate but they cannot dictate what happens. The Government can still set out further plans and has 21 one days to do so. The executive, that's the government, still has the power on how it proceeds.

They can pass a motion essentially command the government on what to do next. As this Spectator writer points out:

Success of Grieve amendment means that if May's deal fails next Tuesday, MPs will have the chance to vote for a composite motion setting out what they want to happen. It's hard to believe that a government that wouldn't follow that motion, could command the House's confidence

It's hard to see the government surviving if it ignores Parliament, Parliament can bring down the government.

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m just stating a fact, apologies for being blunt in doing so, and certainly I haven’t wished anyone dead. The electorate would have been different by about 2.4 million people net at Brexit day if it had to happen.

You are not stating any fact, because as I said you have no reasonable way of measuring how many leavers have actually died and it is really disingenuous to even bring such a thing up.

Originally Posted by Mick

You are not stating any fact, because as I said you have no reasonable way of measuring how many leavers have actually died and it is really disingenuous to even bring such a thing up.

It's a bit morbid to bring up but older voters as a demographic will be dying at a faster rate than younger voters. It's brought up in the context of Brexit but also the future of the Tory Party as the latter's demographic is declining but new Tory voters aren't taking their place as home ownership is arriving later in people's lives than it did 20 years ago.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

They can pass a motion essentially command the government on what to do next. As this Spectator writer points out:

It's hard to see the government surviving if it ignores Parliament, Parliament can bring down the government.

The Governor-General of Australia removed a Prime Minister for less.

Originally Posted by jfman

The Governor-General of Australia removed a Prime Minister for less.

This is not Australia, do you have issues sticking with the facts?

---------- Post added at 19:36 ---------- Previous post was at 19:32 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

It's a bit morbid to bring up but older voters as a demographic will be dying at a faster rate than younger voters. It's brought up in the context of Brexit but also the future of the Tory Party as the latter's demographic is declining but new Tory voters aren't taking their place as home ownership is arriving later in people's lives than it did 20 years ago.

It's not just a bit morbid - it is manifestly immoral to even think such things and very desperate to want people dead so their votes become invalid. Sad and very wrong and shows how some Remainers are really scraping the barrel with the desperation to stop Brexit.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

This is not Australia, do you have issues sticking with the facts?

I’m only pointing out the importance of retaining the confidence or Parliament for a PM. It can often have unanticipated outcomes if you can’t.

It’s led us this far on the road to scrapping Brexit.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

It's not just a bit morbid - it is manifestly immoral to even think such things and very desperate to want people dead so their votes become invalid. Sad and very wrong and shows how some Remainers are really scraping the barrel with the desperation to stop Brexit.

I don’t think it’s immoral. If, in a hypothetical example, this farce dragged on for another two years do you think 2022 should be bound by a 2018 result? What if we were still negotiating in 2026?

There has to come a line where it’s reasonable to accept it’s not the same electorate.

I’ve already said I’m neither desperate to leave or remain, but if we do leave it’s best to do it in a controlled manner. The inability to manage Brexit has put us ever closer to remaining, and it feels like we get closer every day when you see the language around it evolve and the Parliamentary arithmetic squeezed.

You even have Brexit supporting people now minded to think a General Election could be required to deliver Brexit.

Originally Posted by Mick

It's not just a bit morbid - it is manifestly immoral to even think such things and very desperate to want people dead so their votes become invalid. Sad and very wrong and shows how some Remainers are really scraping the barrel with the desperation to stop Brexit.

Well it's not immoral to reflect on how the electorate changes as generations die and new ones are born. It is to want people dead obviously.

The question is if Euroscepticism is related to growing older, or some other related demographic, or if the older generation were uniquely Eurosceptic than those who followed. I.E Those who grew up before we joined the EU vs those who grew up in it. Even without the possibility of another referendum it's an interesting question because of how it'll impact what happens in the future....

Originally Posted by Damien

Well it's not immoral to reflect on how the electorate changes as generations die and new ones are born. It is to want people dead obviously.

There is no evidence of any kind that Millions of leave voters have died - no way to comprehensively say otherwise.

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Well it's not immoral to reflect on how the electorate changes as generations die and new ones are born. It is to want people dead obviously.

The question is if Euroscepticism is related to growing older, or some other related demographic, or if the older generation were uniquely Eurosceptic than those who followed. I.E Those who grew up before we joined the EU vs those who grew up in it. Even without the possibility of another referendum it's an interesting question because of how it'll impact what happens in the future....

I am still YOUNG and very Euro-sceptic, I have no plans to die any time soon to suit some of you Remainers.

I really cannot believe how pathetic this discussion has become.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

There is no evidence of any kind that Millions of leave voters have died - no way to comprehensively say otherwise.

It’s inherently impossible to suggest that over time the population of an electorate does not change. Statistically they are more likely to be leave voters - after all they did win as you keep reminding us!

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s inherently impossible to suggest that over time the population of an electorate does not change. Statistically they are more likely to be leave voters - after all they did win as you keep reminding us!

And yes, I wonder why you and other Remainers keep having to be reminded!!!