Brexit (Old) - Page 287

**Damien** · 04-12-2018, 18:31

Big vote coming now. Grieve put down a amendment which would allow Parliament to help set the terms of what happens if May loses next week. Meaning no deal would be less likely since Parliament has a mechanism to take control.

**Hugh** · 04-12-2018, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Don't be ridiculous. That was always the convention.

The problem with revealing the full legal advice is that you give an advantage to the other side, in this case, the EU.

Not at all shameful for the government to take that position. But those who forced that vote through can rightly be described as treacherous.

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That's what happens when a government is in a minority. Nothing new here.

Whatever happened to the "sovereignty of Parliament"?

Dave42 · 04-12-2018, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Big vote coming now. Grieve put down a amendment which would allow Parliament to help set the terms of what happens if May loses next week. Meaning no deal would be less likely since Parliament has a mechanism to take control.

interest sky just showed graph of pound going up after advice about article 50 being able to be revoked earlier today gone back down after parliament votes

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mps vote for Grieve amendment by 22 majority

jfman · 04-12-2018, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Don't be ridiculous. That was always the convention.

The problem with revealing the full legal advice is that you give an advantage to the other side, in this case, the EU.

Not at all shameful for the government to take that position. But those who forced that vote through can rightly be described as treacherous.

That's what happens when a government is in a minority. Nothing new here.

Absolute nonsense. The convention is to not publish legal advice to Ministers, not to ignore the will of Parliament. Especially on a matter of national importance where as you all claim it should define our country for years, possibly generations to come.

Government cannot simply ignore Parliament. That’s not how it works in this country. It will find itself skating on very thin ice if it continues to do so.

Only one body is entitled to ignore the will of Parliament today. Parliament tomorrow.

denphone · 04-12-2018, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave42

interest sky just showed graph of pound going up after advice about article 50 being able to be revoked earlier today gone back down after parliament votes

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:42 ----------

mps vote for Grieve amendment by 22 majority

Indeed Dave.

Quote:

MPs have voted for an amendment that will ensure MPs can vote in favour of a “plan B” option in January if Theresa May’s deal gets voted down. It was passed by 321 votes to 299 - a majority of 22.

Dave42 · 04-12-2018, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone

Indeed Dave.

no deal just about dead now thankfully

**Damien** · 04-12-2018, 18:55

The amendment passes! Parliament can instruct what happens after May’s deal fails!

denphone · 04-12-2018, 19:00

From ITV’s Robert Peston.

Quote:

Reportedly @DamianGreen and Michael Fallon both voted with Grieve and ostensibly against the government and @theresa_may. They are both May loyalists. So if true, what's not clear is if they think they are doing her a favour rather than embarrassing her. Byzantine

Theresa May's first words now the debate has started.

Quote:

Back in the Commons May says delivering Brexit will require some compromise.

There are some who want a closer relationship with the EU. Some want to stay in. She says she respects them for saying what they think.

But what would this do for our politics if the views of the 52% who voted to leave are ignored, she says.

May says others want a more distant relationship with the EU. She does not agree, but she respects their view.

However, she says, we will not deliver a lasting Brexit if we do not guarantee a close security and trade relationship.

This argument has gone on long enough. It is corrosive to our politics. And life depends on compromise.

jfman · 04-12-2018, 19:01

All the pieces falling into place as predicted.

Someone get Carney on the telly again to wish everyone a miserable Christmas. Our MPs need to be able to stand and “hand on heart” say they had no choice. When in reality they are engineering it. It’s amazing to watch.

**Mick** · 04-12-2018, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

The amendment passes! Parliament can instruct what happens after May’s deal fails!

And we gave an instruction to parliament to withdraw the UK from the corrupted EU via the EU Referendum!

**Hugh** · 04-12-2018, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

And we gave an instruction to parliament to withdraw the UK from the corrupted EU via the EU Referendum!

We can’t give instructions to Parliament - we are in a Representative Democracy, not Delegated one.

jfman · 04-12-2018, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

And we gave an instruction to parliament to withdraw the UK from the corrupted EU via the EU Referendum!

We did, however it’s not binding, and those that did can’t agree on next steps.

If 10 friends decide what to do as a group on Saturday night, 4 want to stay in, 3 want to go to the pub and 3 want to go to the bowling, you are kidding yourself on pretending staying in isn’t the most popular option.

denphone · 04-12-2018, 19:10

Nigel Farage's interview with the Daily Telegraph. { Behind Paywall }

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...n-badly-needs/

**Mick** · 04-12-2018, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

We did, however it’s not binding, and those that did can’t agree on next steps.

If 10 friends decide what to do as a group on Saturday night, 4 want to stay in, 3 want to go to the pub and 3 want to go to the bowling, you are kidding yourself on pretending staying in isn’t the most popular option.

Extremely poor analogy.

The Amendment motion that just got voted on and won is not binding either.

OLD BOY · 04-12-2018, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Absolute nonsense. The convention is to not publish legal advice to Ministers, not to ignore the will of Parliament. Especially on a matter of national importance where as you all claim it should define our country for years, possibly generations to come.

Government cannot simply ignore Parliament. That’s not how it works in this country. It will find itself skating on very thin ice if it continues to do so.

Only one body is entitled to ignore the will of Parliament today. Parliament tomorrow.

It is most certainly not nonsense. Legal advice is never given in full because it contains the full picture, including what the other side (in this case, the EU) can use against you.

Government has not ignored Parliament. Following the vote, it has agreed to release the full advice. However, this is almost unprecedented.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

The amendment passes! Parliament can instruct what happens after May’s deal fails!

It would be better if they actually had a plan which delivered the result of the referendum.