Brexit (Old)

[denphone]

Apparently Theresa May is trying to get him to stay.

[Sephiroth]

I love seeing the politicians squirm. It's been great fun these past 30 months or so.

Disappointing, though, are the apologists for the EU, the deniers of our democratic voting system and the sneerers on this forum.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Yes they do, that's the whole point of a referendum.

Everyone had their chance to vote, if they didnt take it, well thats tough.

If all 17+ million had exactly the same idea of what leaving meant you would have a point, but they didn't.

Odd how more people voted remain than voted for the current government. The snap general election results do not support any particular stance on Brexit. If anything, they show a lack of conviction that the Tories were the right party to sort it out.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

If all 17+ million had exactly the same idea of what leaving meant you would have a point, but they didn't.

Odd how more people voted remain than voted for the current government. The snap general election results do not support any particular stance on Brexit. If anything, they show a lack of conviction that the Tories were the right party to sort it out.

Don't be daft, Angua. Both Conservatives and Labour were standing on the basis that they would implement the result of the referendum. I'd love to hear your explanation about why more people didn't vote Liberal Democrat!

If you seriously believe that most leave voters didn't understand that leave meant leaving the EU, I really don't know where you are getting your information from!

It's the remainers who are deliberately trying to make all this more complicated.

Originally Posted by Angua

If all 17+ million had exactly the same idea of what leaving meant you would have a point, but they didn't.

Odd how more people voted remain than voted for the current government. The snap general election results do not support any particular stance on Brexit. If anything, they show a lack of conviction that the Tories were the right party to sort it out.

Yes they did, if you leave your house, you are no longer in it. If you leave a country, you are no longer in it. If you are asked a question on a ballot paper that asks you if you want to either stay or leave a union and the majority of the voter pick leave, then that means we leave the union.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

Apparently Theresa May is trying to get him to stay.

Bit pointless resigning at this stage. Cabinet can reject the proposals and ask the negotiators to continue negotiating.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mick

Yes they did, if you leave your house, you are no longer in it. If you leave a country, you are no longer in it. If you are asked a question on a ballot paper that asks you if you want to either stay or leave a union and the majority of the voter pick leave, then that means we leave the union.

Precisely, Mick. The arguments I am hearing from the other side are getting increasingly tenuous, and frankly desperate.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Precisely, Mick. The arguments I am hearing from the other side are getting increasingly tenuous, and frankly desperate.

Have you had a chance to consider my point about all those leave politicians who said otherwise and I've provided video evidence of?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

If all 17+ million had exactly the same idea of what leaving meant you would have a point, but they didn't. [SEPH]: You seize on obscure concepts - like reading the minds of 17+ million voters. Leave means Leave and that was a common concept for those who voted Leave.

Odd how more people voted remain than voted for the current government. The snap general election results do not support any particular stance on Brexit. If anything, they show a lack of conviction that the Tories were the right party to sort it out. [SEPH]: What's odd is the fairy dust you try to grab to relate an ill-judged General Election to a definitive Referendum. You ignore the fact of the inexperienced young vote that irresponsibly flocked to Corbyn because they regard all Conservatives as hated toffs; this fact has nothing to do with the Referendum.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Yes they did, if you leave your house, you are no longer in it. If you leave a country, you are no longer in it. If you are asked a question on a ballot paper that asks you if you want to either stay or leave a union and the majority of the voter pick leave, then that means we leave the union.

That would be a fair point if the leave politicians had said this back in 2016. As the video I supplied showed, many said otherwise. Leave meant different things to different people but as this has not been recorded, we'll never know. I suspect most but not all wanted a clean Brexit. How close that is to 17m I don't know.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That would be a fair point if the leave politicians had said this back in 2016. As the video I supplied showed, many said otherwise. Leave meant different things to different people but as this has not been recorded, we'll never know. I suspect most but not all wanted a clean Brexit. How close that is to 17m I don't know.

People must be a bit thick, if they didn't know what the word 'leave' means.

I know what it meant - that's why I ticked it and would do so again and again and AGAIN.

If they did not want to fully leave the EU - Then they should have picked Remain on the ballot.

When I select something that says leave - I know what it means - it means leaving something in it's entirety. "Depart from", "Exit from", to "leave" the group, exit from, no longer connected to group or in said group.

It really is quite ridiculous coming up with people did not know what they were voting for, yet again - it's the same folk like you, yet again trying to de-legitimise the result, talking of the vote being invalid - it isn't, you have previously said you accept the result but you keep going over the result every single time.

No amount of bringing up the numbers will change the democratic result, nor should it. There was quite a large turn out for the vote - those who didn't bother, then that's their loss and it cannot be said, that they didn't vote leave, but by the same token - they did not vote to remain either.

---------- Post added at 08:10 ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Precisely, Mick. The arguments I am hearing from the other side are getting increasingly tenuous, and frankly desperate.

Absolutely - and overbearingly repetitive and very weak.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Bit pointless resigning at this stage. Cabinet can reject the proposals and ask the negotiators to continue negotiating.

Well several have already resigned up to this stage Andrew in the last few months unless you have not noticed and not much has changed from then to now in terms of the continuing cabinet chaos over Brexit.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

Well several have already resigned up to this stage Andrew in the last few months unless you have not noticed and not much has changed from then to now in terms of the continuing cabinet chaos over Brexit.

If I was Raab and disagreed with it, I can't see a downside in rejecting it and sending our negotiators back for another shot. He can always resign if they come with a deal he doesn't like. Resigning now just weakens the Government.

BREAKING: DUP Leader Arlene Foster is on route to London as of this morning, as it currently stands, DUP are refusing to back draft new text which they says threatens the long term relationship of the UK Union with NI.

They say it is unacceptable EU have jurisdiction on their trade deals, that the UK will effectively be handcuffed to the EU and EU will hold the keys. This is not reflecting on the democratic result of the British people and we will refuse to back this on any vote in parliament.

May is in trouble already and it's barely 9 AM !!!

---------- Post added at 09:01 ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 ----------

BREAKING: LEAKED DETAILS OF THE DRAFT TEXT SO FAR:

What's in the text of the draft agreement?

Only the prime minister, EU officials and cabinet ministers are supposed to have seen the text of the draft Brexit agreement so far.

However, leaked details reveal:

1. There is no longer a Northern Ireland-only backstop arrangement aimed at avoiding a hard Irish border, say Number 10 sources
2. However, according to the Daily Telegraph, Northern Ireland will be in a "different regulatory regime" and "subject to EU law and institutions" under a UK-wide backstop arrangement
3. The Times says the PM has agreed to "level playing field" measures tying the UK to EU rules in areas such as state aid and environmental and workers' rights protections under the backstop
4. The Financial Times says the UK will not be able to leave a UK-EU customs union under the backstop arrangement without the EU being satisfied other arrangements are in place to avoid a hard Irish border
5. The same newspaper reports a clause in the draft agreement allows the UK to potentially extend the Brexit transition period beyond December 2020, while a declaration on the future EU-UK relationship remains incomplete
6. A leaked diplomatic note seen by The Times reveals how the EU intends to use a UK-EU customs union and "level playing field" commitment under the backstop as the basis for the UK's future relationship with the bloc

[denphone]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If I was Raab and disagreed with it, I can't see a downside in rejecting it and sending our negotiators back for another shot. He can always resign if they come with a deal he doesn't like. Resigning now just weakens the Government.

Well by tonight or not long after we will know if Theresa May has miraculously suddenly united her warring cabinet or the brown stuff is about to hit the fan,