11-11-2018, 15:15
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#2821
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 68
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 43,796
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I think people today will be facing up to a couple of Brexit realities:
1. There is no strong and stable government in place at the moment and things are likely to worsen. It really is a case of Carry on Brexit.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...sters-13566895
2. The EU has likely rejected May's proposal for the Irish backstop
https://news.sky.com/story/rejection...-plan-11551130
As a reminder, on 17 July 2016, John Redwood told us "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation." SEPH]: Unforunately the stupid TB guvmin did not play those cards.
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Or, Redwood was playing Snap and the EU was playing Texas Hold ‘Em... 
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11-11-2018, 16:33
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#2822
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 13,234
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Could you tell us which countries trade with EU without a trade deal, please?
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China, India and the USA to name three.
New Zealand, Brazil, Australia to name another three.
In fact there aren’t that many that do.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/cou...nts/#_in-place
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The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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11-11-2018, 16:40
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#2823
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Wisdom & truth
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
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Posts: 12,629
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Re: Brexit
Look - there are two camps here.
1/
Those who favour the economic arguments and the lower risk in that respect of remaining in the EU.
2/
Those who place sovereignty above being regulated by the EU. This faction is further spurred by the EU’s attitude to negotiations.
Add to that mix an incompetent guvmin and we get to the ridiculous situation where even prominent Leavers are opining that remaining is better than the current TB deal.
The UK is in real turmoil and much of the future is in Parliament’s hands. With Leave/Remain now united in rejecting TB’s folly, the crisis will only deepen.
However, the best bet, and it is a gamble, would be for a new PM to call the EU’s bluff, go for no deal and see if the EU panic.
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Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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11-11-2018, 17:35
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#2824
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 13,234
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
However, the best bet, and it is a gamble, would be for a new PM to call the EU’s bluff, go for no deal and see if the EU panic.
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It’s really the only game in town.
Leave, just walk away, like you threatened at the very beginning.
See how quickly things would get sorted out. I think very quickly.
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The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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11-11-2018, 17:41
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#2825
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Perfect Soldier
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Worthing West Sussex
Age: 68
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Posts: 11,214
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Re: Brexit
Just leave as the referendum demands. THEN talk a trade deal. Anything else is a sell out.
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History is much like an endless waltz: The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
However history will change with my coronation - Mariemaia Khushrenada
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11-11-2018, 18:08
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#2826
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jarrow Tyne & Wear
Services: 360 box
Posts: 5,864
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Look - there are two camps here.
1/
Those who favour the economic arguments and the lower risk in that respect of remaining in the EU.
2/
Those who place sovereignty above being regulated by the EU. This faction is further spurred by the EU’s attitude to negotiations.
Add to that mix an incompetent guvmin and we get to the ridiculous situation where even prominent Leavers are opining that remaining is better than the current TB deal.
The UK is in real turmoil and much of the future is in Parliament’s hands. With Leave/Remain now united in rejecting TB’s folly, the crisis will only deepen.
However, the best bet, and it is a gamble, would be for a new PM to call the EU’s bluff, go for no deal and see if the EU panic.
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why would they panic it us that has the much weaker hand in these talks
it not them that fall of cliff edge it us yes they lose a bit but we lose much more
it not them that be only one in world with 0 trade deals it us and there is countries all ready objecting to our WTO terms
it not them that have a medicine shortage it us ect
Last edited by Dave42; 11-11-2018 at 18:12.
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11-11-2018, 18:16
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#2827
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,139
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Re: Brexit
Still banging the Project fear drum I see Dave..... 
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11-11-2018, 19:17
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#2828
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 with 360 software, ITVX, 4+, Prime, Netflix, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount+, Discovery+
Posts: 15,162
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Look - there are two camps here.
1/
Those who favour the economic arguments and the lower risk in that respect of remaining in the EU.
2/
Those who place sovereignty above being regulated by the EU. This faction is further spurred by the EU’s attitude to negotiations.
Add to that mix an incompetent guvmin and we get to the ridiculous situation where even prominent Leavers are opining that remaining is better than the current TB deal.
The UK is in real turmoil and much of the future is in Parliament’s hands. With Leave/Remain now united in rejecting TB’s folly, the crisis will only deepen.
However, the best bet, and it is a gamble, would be for a new PM to call the EU’s bluff, go for no deal and see if the EU panic.
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I would prefer to know what the deal is before jumping to the conclusion that no deal is the best option. All we have at present is media speculation.
If we feel that the proposed deal TM has negotiated is not good for the UK, then certainly, we go for the full monty. But it is too early to judge now.
Some of the stuff people are complaining about TM has already said no PM would agree to. We shouldn't be losing our nerve at this stage in particular. For God's sake, let the woman see what she can do before we criticise her. For the umpteenth time, this is a negotiation! All these 'noises off' are a distraction and playing into Barnier's hands.
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12-11-2018, 10:58
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#2829
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,657
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Re: Brexit
Cabinet ministers voiced doubts at PM's preferred Brexit plan from the start.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46175150
Quote:
Multiple cabinet ministers expressed significant doubts about the prime minister's preferred Brexit plan from the start, the BBC has learned.
Parts of Theresa May's plan were described as "worrying", "disappointing" and "concerning" by members of her top team back in July.
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“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
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12-11-2018, 10:59
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#2830
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Woke and proud !
Join Date: Jun 2004
Services: TV, Phone, BB, a wife
Posts: 9,954
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
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Still signed up to it though didn't they ?
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12-11-2018, 11:05
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#2831
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,657
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
Still signed up to it though didn't they ?
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A cabinet split from top to bottom.
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“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
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12-11-2018, 12:07
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#2832
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,725
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Or, Redwood was playing Snap and the EU was playing Texas Hold ‘Em... |
The only cards TM holds are a bunch of Jokers ..
---------- Post added at 11:07 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
even prominent Leavers are opining that remaining is better than the current TB deal
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Maybe they have put down their religious texts, done their due diligence and realised the reality of the current situation?
The country needs to be able to make an informed consent: the very basis of our Democracy.
https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/statu...15908387618816
Quote:
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What Brexiters argue for is not democracy, but Democratic Centralism - no dissent tolerated once a vote has taken place, regardless of any emerging facts. It is a system that Stalin particularly favoured
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I looked up Democratic Centralism. Fits the bill perfectly:
Quote:
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After a period of debate, a vote is taken. If one vote clearly wins (gaining 60% or above share if two options for example) all participants (the party) are expected to follow that decision, and not continue propagandising or otherwise working against it, aiming to act in unity.
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12-11-2018, 12:43
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#2833
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,139
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Re: Brexit
Sigh. The country made their informed consent in June 2016!!!
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12-11-2018, 14:35
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#2834
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,725
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
Sigh. The country made their informed consent in June 2016!!! |
Incorrect .. as we can now all plainly see ..
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12-11-2018, 14:51
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#2835
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,411
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Re: Brexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
Sigh. The country made their informed consent in June 2016!!! |
It wasn't informed as the leave deal was not done and various leave politicians offered contradictory messages eg still staying in EEA, not staying in the EEA.
The UK Government should have negotiated with the EU without the disadvantageous time pressure of Article 50 which favours the hand of the EU then offered the country the two choices.
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