Brexit (Old)

[Sephiroth]

Anyway, the issue in this thread is whether to completely leave that awful EU and make our own way, or to stay as close as possible to that awful EU out of economic interest.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Carth

. . . a post-Brexit customs option preferred by Brexiters would cost up to £20bn


oh look there, one of my most hated sayings. I take it from the phrase 'up to' that it could cost anywhere from as little as £10 up to 20 billion then

That's from 10 - 20,000,000,000 totally impartial pounds

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Anyway, the issue in this thread is whether to completely leave that awful EU and make our own way, or to stay as close as possible to that awful EU out of economic interest.

you forgot to mention the awful German hegemony...

[1andrew1]

Mysterious ‘chuck Chequers’ group spent £257,000 on advertising
A secretive campaign has spent more than £250,000 urging voters to back a hard Brexit, according to an analysis published by a parliamentary committee.
Damian Collins, chairman of the Commons Digital, Culture, Media and Sport select committee, said the secrecy surrounding the activities of the Mainstream Network underlined the need for Facebook, which runs the group’s advertising, to improve its transparency.
“The only people who know who is paying for these adverts is Facebook,” Mr Collins said.
The committee’s revelations are the latest to raise concerns about the role of online lobbying groups in influencing political opinion in the UK. The Mainstream Network case came to light as part of its wider inquiry into “fake news”.

https://www.ft.com/content/c3893322-...2-7574db66bcd5

Certainly, the website gives nothing away about who's behind it. http://mainstreamnetwork.co.uk/

[Sephiroth]

The Torygraph today reports that in any future relationship deal, the awful hegemonist ic EU will insist that the UK aligns with the EU’s tax models. Their reasoning is to keep a level playing field - as in UK not allowed to lower corporation tax, etc.

The corollary to this is that the awful hegemonist EU actually fears the UK as a free, no-deal agent. So should we be seriously worried about a Hard Brexit?

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

you forgot to mention the awfu German hegemony...

I’ll bear that in mind.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The corollary to this is that the awful hegemonist EU actually fears the UK as a free, no-deal agent. So should we be seriously worried about a Hard Brexit

According to industry, we most definitely should.

Key industries will be destroyed by a hard Brexit, one of the country’s most powerful chief executives has predicted, amid warnings that Britain’s imminent EU exit has dented investment by four in five businesses.
Ralf Speth, the boss of Jaguar Land Rover, said that such an outcome would lead to the closure of plants and major job losses as he warned that some exposed industries would have “no way to survive a hard Brexit”.
Speth stood by his claim that tens of thousands of jobs would be lost. “That’s correct,” he told the Your Money channel during a trip to Australia last week. “Everybody can do the maths. It is very open and very transparent. It is not only at Jaguar Land Rover, but it is also an element for the supplier industry and export industry in the UK.”
It will be very, very critical if we see a hard Brexit or no deal. Companies will disappear, plants will be closed. There’s no way to survive a hard Brexit for many industries. But I hope again that the politicians see it and act for the benefit of their own population.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ver-cbi-survey

[Carth]

I'll just add the bit you didn't copy & paste from that article Andrew


John Longworth and Richard Tice, from the pro-Brexit Leave Means Leave group, dismissed the survey as no more than “political propaganda”.

They said: “This lightweight survey, with a sample size of just 236 companies, is not indicative of the overall mood music of businesses up and down the country who just want the government to get on with it,” they said. “The CBI are crudely being the mouthpiece for ruthless multinationals and political elites who are prepared to sacrifice our long-protected democracy for their own pensions and profit margins.”

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

I'll just add the bit you didn't copy & paste from that article Andrew

John Longworth and Richard Tice, from the pro-Brexit Leave Means Leave group, dismissed the survey as no more than “political propaganda”.

They said: “This lightweight survey, with a sample size of just 236 companies, is not indicative of the overall mood music of businesses up and down the country who just want the government to get on with it,” they said. “The CBI are crudely being the mouthpiece for ruthless multinationals and political elites who are prepared to sacrifice our long-protected democracy for their own pensions and profit margins.”

Contrite phrases cannot dismiss the words of Jaguar Land Rover. And how would his statement increase his pension? I doubt you or anyone believes it would!

---------- Post added at 09:26 ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 ----------

Not looking good for Theresa May

Theresa May was warned she is in the 'killing zone' today and could have just 72 hours to save her job.
The Prime Minister faces demands she attend a 'show trial' on her Brexit concessions and the state of the Government on Wednesday night.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-save-job.html

But chances of a second referendum seem to have risen as civil servants plan for the possibility.

Civil servants have started secret contingency planning for a second referendum, it can be revealed. Within the past fortnight they have responded to fears that Theresa May will struggle to get a Brexit deal through parliament and have been “war-gaming” a new vote.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...ndum-c5lt9djws Registration required for full article

I wish you would stop posting links behind sites that require subscription/registration, because I refuse to do either!

[Gavin78]

Originally Posted by Mick

I wish you would stop posting links behind sites that require subscription/registration, because I refuse to do either!

I wish remain would stop posting crap all the time about a 2nd referendum or lets have a march because we don't respect the ones that voted leave.

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I wish remain would stop posting crap all the time about a 2nd referendum or lets have a march because we don't respect the ones that voted leave.

It's going to be like this for a while even after we leave. The country is divided and I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

[Carth]

Yep, as I see it the country seems to be divided four ways:

1) Those who voted leave and are generally happy

2) Those who voted remain and are quite upset

3) Those who couldn't be bothered to vote and are now kicking everyone but themselves

4) Those who were ineligible to vote and are crying about the unfairness of it

To be honest though, I haven't seen so much anguish since Dirty Den was killed off

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Carth

Yep, as I see it the country seems to be divided four ways:

1) Those who voted leave and are generally happy

2) Those who voted remain and are quite upset

3) Those who couldn't be bothered to vote and are now kicking everyone but themselves

4) Those who were ineligible to vote and are crying about the unfairness of it

To be honest though, I haven't seen so much anguish since Dirty Den was killed off

No l am certainly not upset as life goes on but there will be quite a few on both sides of the fence who will not have not been enamoured by the complete omnishambles we have had in the two years since the referendum.

[Sephiroth]

Raab just upped the ante. As long as he gets to the table on the new stand fast basis, we might be getting somewhere. His position is that if there is to be an implementation/transition extension, at the end of the defined period, no backstop applies. A transition period implies there is a political statement that outlines the future relationship.

That statement, if arrived at, must not hide or contain anything that gives the vaguest hint of taxationalignment as that would tie our hands into anti-competitiveness. I doubt the anti-democratic awful hegemonist EU would agree to this and so we would crash out at some stage.

So we should get their taxation position sorted out up front because if they have the slightest notion of going down that route, there must be no-deal and we are 100% out on 30-March.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Carth

Yep, as I see it the country seems to be divided four ways:

1) Those who voted leave and are generally happy

2) Those who voted remain and are quite upset

3) Those who couldn't be bothered to vote and are now kicking everyone but themselves

4) Those who were ineligible to vote and are crying about the unfairness of it

To be honest though, I haven't seen so much anguish since Dirty Den was killed off

You forgot: -

5) Those who voted leave and realise what a huge mistake they made.