Government & Post Election Discussion

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

No, it's very straight forward, actually. The people were asked - should we stay or should we go? The people said go. So we go.

I'm struggling to understand why some people find this such a difficult concept to grasp.

There is no abyss - only opportunity.

Think you need to tell Theresa OB, as she doesn't seem to grasp your concept.
Staying in the customs union is basically staying in the EU (with no say on anything). Some opportunity !

The 2008 crash took most people by surprise. There was little warning from senior politicians about the risk of consumer debt pre-2008 and even amongst those cautious about the economy thought it would be China, not American mortgages, from where the crisis would originate.

In fact a year before the crash the Tories were promising to match Labour's spending: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6975536.stm

Labour obviously have a lot of answer for both for the deficit at the time of the crash and a lack of regulation but neither of these were issues the Tories were warning about or prepared for. The partisan kool-aid people drink because they think in binary, red vs blue, terms is absurd.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

Err nothing.

No, it was Labour. Fact.

This is obviously not true. The 2008 crash was caused by the near-collapse of the banking system, largely in the US Mortgage industry, which is why it hit around the world and not just the UK.

[1andrew1]

Back to the present moment.

Tory commons leader Andrea Leadsom is prepared to resign if Theresa May compromises further on her Brexit plan, The Independent understands.
The cabinet member's decision to consider her future follows a meeting of senior government ministers on Thursday evening, when the prime minister revealed some details of her new proposals to break the deadlock over the Irish border.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8580471.html

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Damien

The 2008 crash took most people by surprise. There was little warning from senior politicians about the risk of consumer debt pre-2008 and even amongst those cautious about the economy thought it would be China, not American mortgages, from where the crisis would originate.

In fact a year before the crash the Tories were promising to match Labour's spending: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6975536.stm

Labour obviously have a lot of answer for both for the deficit at the time of the crash and a lack of regulation but neither of these were issues the Tories were warning about or prepared for. The partisan kool-aid people drink because they think in binary, red vs blue, terms is absurd.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------



This is obviously not true. The 2008 crash was caused by the near-collapse of the banking system, largely in the US Mortgage industry, which is why it hit around the world and not just the UK.

The banking crash in this country was due to the lack of regulation of the banks by the government in power. The US sub-prime mortage funding was a disaster waiting to happen and it did. For the ordinary working man it would have been better if the stupid banks had been allowed to go bust rather than a bail out. It would have certainly cost less. As always though those that had more money prevailed to protect their investment.

Originally Posted by pip08456

The banking crash in this country was due to the lack of regulation of the banks by the government in power. The US sub-prime mortage funding was a disaster waiting to happen and it did. For the ordinary working man it would have been better if the stupid banks had been allowed to go bust rather than a bail out. It would have certainly cost less. As always though those that had more money prevailed to protect their investment.

It's a bit hypothetical I think. You could also argue that given what was to come that in hindsight Lenham should have not been allowed to fail.

I don't think they could have let the banks fail. There are too integrated into the financial system and the dominos would have continued to fall into businesses that depend on them and ordinary people's savings and accounts.

People forget that in the US, UK and some European nations the immediate impact wasn't as catastrophic as it could have been. The intervention did stem the crisis but as time has gone on the economy has been stagnant as we've failed to ever really move on and the impact has had a long, latent, effect instead. So maybe a short, sharp, shock might have been better. I don't know.

As I said though it was a global thing. Labour are to blame for leaving the economy in a state where the reaction to it was more expensive and for the lack of regulation. That said I think the Conservatives would have gone with the austerity approach, it ideologically suited them as a response, rather than the Obama style stimulus anyway. Successful governments on both sides of the pond are to blame for the lack of regulation.

Originally Posted by Damien

It's a bit hypothetical I think. You could also argue that given what was to come that in hindsight Lenham should have not been allowed to fail.

I don't think they could have let the banks fail. There are too integrated into the financial system and the dominos would have continued to fall into businesses that depend on them and ordinary people's savings and accounts.

People forget that in the US, UK and some European nations the immediate impact wasn't as catastrophic as it could have been. The intervention did stem the crisis but as time has gone on the economy has been stagnant as we've failed to ever really move on and the impact has had a long, latent, effect instead. So maybe a short, sharp, shock might have been better. I don't know.

As I said though it was a global thing. Labour are to blame for leaving the economy in a state where the reaction to it was more expensive and for the lack of regulation. That said I think the Conservatives would have gone with the austerity approach, it ideologically suited them as a response, rather than the Obama style stimulus anyway. Successful governments on both sides of the pond are to blame for the lack of regulation.

Do you mean successive rather than successful?

bah

Originally Posted by Damien

This is obviously not true. The 2008 crash was caused by the near-collapse of the banking system, largely in the US Mortgage industry, which is why it hit around the world and not just the UK.

I stand by my assertion that Labour bankrupted our country when they were in power, down to them and the lack of poor banking regulations, remember the note they left the Tories, in the Treasury Dept. in 2010 - "There is no money left."

Gordon Brown sold Gold reserves at rock bottom prices.

I totally and utterly blame them.

Just wait where Corbyn, McDonnell and cannot count Diane Abbott, would leave us with their socialism bollocks, if they ever came to power.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Mick

I stand by my assertion that Labour bankrupted our country when they were in power, down to them and the lack of poor banking regulations, remember the note they left the Tories, in the Treasury Dept. in 2010 - "There is no money left."

Gordon Brown sold Gold reserves at rock bottom prices.

I totally and utterly blame them.

Just wait where Corbyn, McDonnell and cannot count Diane Abbott, would leave us with their socialism bollocks, if they ever came to power.

That's a long standing traditional joke note done by every exiting chancellor for their successor.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by daveeb

That's a long standing traditional joke note done by every exiting chancellor for their successor.

Every Labour chancellor seems to do it. That's also what greeted Maggie when she came to power. Totally feckless behaviour.

Labour inherit healthy balances from the Conservatives when they come to power and leave nothing when they depart.

---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

The 2008 crash took most people by surprise. There was little warning from senior politicians about the risk of consumer debt pre-2008 and even amongst those cautious about the economy thought it would be China, not American mortgages, from where the crisis would originate.

In fact a year before the crash the Tories were promising to match Labour's spending: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6975536.stm

Labour obviously have a lot of answer for both for the deficit at the time of the crash and a lack of regulation but neither of these were issues the Tories were warning about or prepared for. The partisan kool-aid people drink because they think in binary, red vs blue, terms is absurd.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------



This is obviously not true. The 2008 crash was caused by the near-collapse of the banking system, largely in the US Mortgage industry, which is why it hit around the world and not just the UK.

Well, if Gordon Brown hadn't monetised and spent our gold reserves, it might have been a different story.

---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Think you need to tell Theresa OB, as she doesn't seem to grasp your concept.
Staying in the customs union is basically staying in the EU (with no say on anything). Some opportunity !

It is, and we won't.

---------- Post added at 10:36 ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Neither did the Conservatives. That's the issue too.

I think you need to explain that, Andrew. Tony Blair inherited a sound economy, and with gold reserves which Gordon Brown soon plundered, together with a raid on pensions. Surely, you haven't forgotten...

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

The voting system in Britain will die if Brexit is not enacted, all those millions who voted for it and it won by a massive majority of over a million people and it is stopped by those trying to keep us in a corrupt union. This will kill democracy because, through the hearts and minds of the leave voters, there is no point in voting because we clearly live in a dictatorship.

You are clearly misguided if you think everything will be rosy in a scenario where Brexit is not fulfilled.

I will leave you with this .

Politicians not listening to the people continues to cause problems. People are still being told to shut up and go away. The current FPTP is the problem. The Brexit result argument is just one of the symptoms.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

I will leave you with this .

Politicians not listening to the people continues to cause problems. People are still being told to shut up and go away. The current FPTP is the problem. The Brexit result argument is just one of the symptoms.

A symptom of what? I thought Brexit was the electorate's verdict. You seem to be a little mixed up here, old bean.

The government has listened and is trying to get the best Brexit deal it can. It is the remainers who don't accept the referendum result who are not listening to the majority who voted.

[pip08456]

I find it humorous that a lot of (not all) remainers advocate for PR yet are trying to overturn a referendum result that was based on PR.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by pip08456

I find it humorous that a lot of (not all) remainers advocate for PR yet are trying to overturn a referendum result that was based on PR.

Their stance betrays their lack of democratic principles. They just want their own way.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

A symptom of what? I thought Brexit was the electorate's verdict. You seem to be a little mixed up here, old bean.

The government has listened and is trying to get the best Brexit deal it can. It is the remainers who don't accept the referendum result who are not listening to the majority who voted.

Brexit was the result of the government not really listening to the electorate. People voted to leave as much in protest at the government as any other reason, despite the total leave assumption by those who took the voting options at face value. May compounded this with a bizarre set of manifesto pledges which ended up leaving them with no clear majority.

I see no further point in trying to change a closed mind regarding our undemocratic electoral system. Disillusionment with the governments we get lumped with will continue.