Brexit discussion

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Was that on the bus ?

Not enough room Too many Lies on there already ..

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It is certainly difficult and embarassing to hear someone speaking so eloquently on the other side of your own arguments, demolishing all the issues you raise one by one.

He is certainly not the person to listen to if you want to stay in your own comfort zone.

I wouldn't know, I haven't listened to a word he said since he was caught lying about Corbyn on channel 4 news and profited from abortion pills whilst sanctimoniously preaching to the rest of us about the sanctity of life, I'm interested though, what issues have I raised that he has demolished? To me he's just another self serving Shyster out for himself, whose ego and ambition are greater than the sum of his talent.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I wouldn't know, I haven't listened to a word he said since he was caught lying about Corbyn on channel 4 news and profited from abortion pills whilst sanctimoniously preaching to the rest of us about the sanctity of life, I'm interested though, what issues have I raised that he has demolished? To me he's just another self serving Shyster out for himself, whose ego and ambition are greater than the sum of his talent.

That's the thing, you're not listening. If you were, you might understand why the customs matter is actually a non-issue.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That's the thing, you're not listening. If you were, you might understand why the customs matter is actually a non-issue.

When have I ever said it was an issue? In fact the only question I remember I've ever asked is what we'll be selling the day after we leave that we don't currently, has really smug got an answer to that.

Hilarious, one moment he is embarrassing me with his eloquence, demolishing my arguments and the next it's not that at all, the thing now is I'm not actually listening to him at all and you think after posting that it's me that should be embarrassed.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

When have I ever said it was an issue? In fact the only question I remember I've ever asked is what we'll be selling the day after we leave that we don't currently, has really smug got an answer to that.

Hilarious, one moment he is embarrassing me with his eloquence, demolishing my arguments and the next it's not that at all, the thing now is I'm not actually listening to him at all and you think after posting that it's me that should be embarrassed.

Sorry to have misrepresented your views, I thought that's where you stood. Clearly, I was wrong about that, so I apologise.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Not enough room Too many Lies on there already ..

Spot on Ian.
The Evening Standard today has a robust article from Grant Lewis on Brexit trade lies.

Brexiteers like to tell us all that they are free traders. But, as with just about everything else in the echo chamber they’ve built for themselves, the claim fails to stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny.
As the UK attempts to find a second-rate substitute for a trade relationship with 500 million people right on our doorstep, in the second stage of the Brexit negotiations, you’re likely to hear a lot of nonsense from the Outers on the subject. These are the biggest whoppers to watch out for:
1. The European Union is a “protectionist cartel”..
2. FTAs deliver free trade..
3. We need new FTAs to trade with the world..
4. Free movement of labour is not required for free trade..
5. You don’t need a common legal framework to have free trade..
6. Distance no longer matters..
7. FTAs can make up for what we lose on leaving the EU..

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/...-a3852391.html

[Mr K]

I see Lord Lawson, keenest of Brexiteers, has applied for residency in France ! LOL

Leading Brexiteer Lord Lawson applies for French residency - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44313941

[1andrew1]

Barclays is tightening its lending criteria to a UK economy that is lagging behind the rest of the world.
Chief executive Jes Staley says Brexit uncertainty was helping to stunt economic growth and that was something the bank could not ignore...
The UK economy is still growing - but very slowly. In the last 12 months it has grown 1.2% compared with 2.2% in the US and 2.5% in the eurozone.
Mr Staley said measures might include looking at how big a loan Barclays would be prepared to provide as a percentage of the value of a residential property - the so called loan to value ratio - particularly in London and the South East...
The government has always accepted that businesses - particularly foreign ones - will be cautious about investing in the UK while Brexit is under discussion. But the fact that the headwinds are making a UK bank such as Barclays say explicitly that it is becoming concerned about its exposure to the UK economy is a new development.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44323693

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I see Lord Lawson, keenest of Brexiteers, has applied for residency in France ! LOL

Leading Brexiteer Lord Lawson applies for French residency - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44313941

Nothing like being loyal to thy nation Mr K..

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I see Lord Lawson, keenest of Brexiteers, has applied for residency in France ! LOL

Leading Brexiteer Lord Lawson applies for French residency - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44313941

Having brought a Brexit vote to Britain, France must be his next project!

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I see Lord Lawson, keenest of Brexiteers, has applied for residency in France ! LOL

Leading Brexiteer Lord Lawson applies for French residency - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44313941

Could be your new neighbor when you move there so you can remain in the eu.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I see Lord Lawson, keenest of Brexiteers, has applied for residency in France ! LOL

I think the culinary delight keeps him happy - having grown up with his daughter's cooking he knows how bad British food is and can be.

Obviously it is not that bad that he would want to eat frogs legs instead so all joking aside, it just shows that Europe works for the rich.

I don't know how he framed his specific voice to leave but saying that the EU does not work for the poor but does for the rich is likely exemplified by his behavior here ; hypocritical as it may look.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, we can't control EU immigration! People walk into this country and as long as they can get work, they are allowed to stay. What Brexiteers say is that we should only take in people from outside this country if we have a skills shortage and employers feel that this is the only way of addressing it. The reason for the restrictions we want to see is nothing to do with race, it is simply the fact that we are already overcrowded, which places a strain on our housing, education, health service and social services.

Okay so your user name is "OLD BOY"...can I ask how old you are? I don't mean this in a derogatory way at all, but who do you think makes sure that your pension pot is full? Social care...aside from tax increases how else is it going to be paid for? Immigrants contribute more to society than they ever take. It does not leave people out of work at all - they are jobs that will not be filled anyway without the migrant work.

As for housing / education etc - do you expect them to be deprived of the care they are entitled to? The housing and education that everyone gets? Or would you rather that they are treated as second class citizens?

By all means, now that the UK is leaving the EU the UK can do as it chooses with housing / education etc...just don't expect EU immigrants to make sure they operate the system too (by supplying Nurses / teachers etc).

It is you that is the gamble here (not you personally, but your generation) and they voted "leave" more than anyone so time to put your money where your mouth is I guess.

If there was a balance between immigration and emigration, this would not have become an issue.

Ummm, that is like the argument on trade deals / the CU. Same principle - if you are in the SM you have to accept free movement - totally. That means all 4 principles...not the ones that you wish to pick and chose but all of them.

Now, you could have some restrictions / allow some people in from the EU (with as many caps as you wish) but not be a member of the SM but with no benefits of the SM the burden and drain would be severely on us.

And it is all very well for you to say that we can send them back if they don't get work, but that depends on whether we can find them!

No offense but whose fault is that? The EU don't restrict how we keep a track of these people so if we can't figure out where they are, that is on us. Also the minute they try access services (healthcare etc) they become pretty noticeable to authorities - if you think they are running round the country and can't be found (which is your reason for not wanting them here) then ask for more resources to turn Britain into even more of a police state I guess.

We should only let in those who have the skills we require until we can restore the balance. Leaving the EU will help us to achieve that.

What?

Let's start from the very basics here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...lation/mar2017

Our population is losing (through death or emigration) a certain number of people every year.

The UK birth rate is also at a 10 year low:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8066101.html

There were 774,835 live births in the UK in 2016, the lowest rate since 748,563 live births in 2006 and down from a peak of 812,970 births in 2012, new data from the Office for National Statistics show.
Although the population is still growing overall – there were 597,206 deaths recorded – the new data show the demographic decline in certain parts of the UK with less immigration such as Scotland where there were 54,488 live births and 56,728 deaths.
This is at the lowest point since 2006 when 55,690 babies were born – and 55,093 deaths – with the rate peaking in 2008 at 60,041 live births compared to 55,700 deaths.

In fact forget all this...it will just get you completely bogged down in the numbers.

Just look at it this way:

There were 697,852 live births in England and Wales in 2015, an increase of 0.4% from 2014.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...dandwales/2015

There were 529,655 deaths registered in England and Wales in 2015, an increase of 5.6% compared with 2014.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...arytables/2015

With the TFR dropping and dropping (along with the birth rate hitting a 10 year low) the population will become stagnant and start falling like other nations that have a very closed off immigration system - like Japan.

Do you get from just a statistical POV that with less people there will be less paying tax and with an ever aging society / older and older people living longer and longer that the whole system is untenable and unstable?

I mean to put it bluntly, who on earth is going to pay for all these services that you keep talking about? Less being born, less immigrants, LFPR lower and lower, more elderly dependents / rising costs per person...what am I missing here? How do you propose making this all work?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I see Lord Lawson, keenest of Brexiteers, has applied for residency in France ! LOL

Leading Brexiteer Lord Lawson applies for French residency - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44313941

Hope they say no then he will be closer to the problems he has created. However, money talks many languages and French is doubtless one of them.

---------- Post added 03-06-2018 at 00:04 ---------- Previous post was 02-06-2018 at 23:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

Immigrants contribute more to society than they ever take.

This fact is a stumbling block for many Brexiters who just encounter the Romanian Big Issue sellers and not the fintech entrepreneurs.

There are no stumbling blocks, no problems created. The leave vote won. That was democracy and there is still some of you who are pathetically forgetting that.

I would vote leave again and again and again. I don’t want our country to be in a corrupted establishment aka the EU.