U.S, UK and France Launch Missile Strikes in Syria

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Damien

Kinda makes me think they know Assad did it...

No! It's the novichok we had left over from poisoning our own citizens.

We had to do something with it then we could say we don't have any stockpile.

This is how Russia operate though. They don't care if you believe them or not. They just want to sow as much misinformation, doubt and division in the West as possible in order to paralyse the political process and undermine faith in our institutions. Their goal isn't for people to say 'Russia are right' but 'well, who knows whose right? They're all the same'.

[pip08456]

I think you'll find it is more for their home market.

Originally Posted by pip08456

I think you'll find it is more for their home market.

It's not (and at least not entirely). It's why they fund RT and Sputnik News. The latter finds many of it's 'stories' disseminated in the Western Press. It's why they have these troll farms.

This news report from RT is meant for a international audience for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKE6YKw5Y40

They did it during the Cold War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation

They spread so much disinformation, alternative stories and so on in the aim that some useful idiots run with it and everyone else just gives up trying to understand what actually happened or think it's impossible to ever know.

[noel43]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Yeah your right Arthur lets take no action against Russia or it's interests ever why take the chance better to be safe then sorry right. Well actually no Putin is a threat and he must be opposed at every opportunity or more countries will find themselves under attack despite his rhetoric he is anything but a man of peace. He is a thug who managed to maneuver his way into political power and is now prepared to use every dirty trick in the book to extend his reach and the only thing inaction will do is cause more chaos in other areas.

Syria is a testing ground for the latest Russian toys for Putin if he was serious about aiding them he could have sent a big enough force to end the conflict once and for all he didn't because the situation there suits him and his plans.

So is any war America gets its hands into.

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:18 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

This does point to a worrying lack of backbone in the British public. It's difficult to understand how people can watch those poor children after a chemical attack and not be moved to stop this waste of life.

There are always dangers of getting involved, but if we sit back and do nothing, it's only a matter of time before Putin arrives to break our doors down. He won't knock first, although that might be what we polite British would think was polite.

If u want to get involved nothing stopping you from going over there.

Originally Posted by noel43

If u want to get involved nothing stopping you from going over there.

Yes there is, he is a civilian.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

This is how Russia operate though. They don't care if you believe them or not. They just want to sow as much misinformation, doubt and division in the West as possible in order to paralyse the political process and undermine faith in our institutions. Their goal isn't for people to say 'Russia are right' but 'well, who knows whose right? They're all the same'.

That's right. They have to feed useful idiots like Corbyn so he's still able to kick off against right minded people in western democracies. Some parts of the gullible public will believe it.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That's right. They have to feed useful idiots like Corbyn so he's still able to kick off against right minded people in western democracies. Some parts of the gullible public will believe it.

The problem is at some point people learn that your own Government can lie and that the West has done bad things. That the world isn't quite divided into good vs bad. With this breakthrough that every teenager thinks they alone have made they 'question everything' but in reality this often means simply replacing 'official' stories with conspiratorial ones irrespective of evidence.

But this is where that development stops and they spend the rest of their lives with that mindset rather than taking a nuanced approach that would suggest sometimes the 'bad' people are also acting in self-interest, they too can lie and sometimes they're in the wrong and not Britain/America/France/whatever.

They think they're resistant to propaganda, that they have 'open minds' but they're the most easily manipulated of them all. Just by a different country is all.

[noel43]

Originally Posted by Mick

Yes there is, he is a civilian.

Its always civilians that want others to go in and sort the problem out. The anti gov are civilians fighting against the gov.

---------- Post added at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 21:04 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

The problem is at some point people learn that your own Government can lie and that the West has done bad things. That the world isn't quite divided into good vs bad. With this breakthrough that every teenager thinks they alone have made they 'question everything' but in reality this often means simply replacing 'official' stories with conspiratorial ones irrespective of evidence.

But this is where that development stops and they spend the rest of their lives with that mindset rather than taking a nuanced approach that would suggest sometimes the 'bad' people are also acting in self-interest, they too can lie and sometimes they're in the wrong and not Britain/America/France/whatever.

They think they're resistant to propaganda, that they have 'open minds' but they're the most easily manipulated of them all. Just by a different country is all.

You mean like Blaire and Bush and WMD's in Iraq

So in your opinion Noel what action should be taken ???.

[noel43]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

So in your opinion Noel what action should be taken ???.

Got nothing to do with us, besides we gassed the Kurds in 1921 so we have no shout in this, or shou!don't have.

So we should let them get on with it and standby and watch atrocity after atrocity doing absolutely nothing. The UK has been more open then any other empire about the abuses it committed and has worked very hard to make up for it's past but saying the past should prevent current action means we might as well just withdraw from everything and become the insular xenophobic little island many think we are becoming.

Just had a look at your claim that we gassed the kurds in the 1920's and cannot find a single reputable source to confirm it but there many reputable and credible sources to say it was considered but never implemented so a link to your information would be helpful.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

So we should let them get on with it and standby and watch atrocity after atrocity doing absolutely nothing. The UK has been more open then any other empire about the abuses it committed and has worked very hard to make up for it's past but saying the past should prevent current action means we might as well just withdraw from everything and become the insular xenophobic little island many think we are becoming.

Just had a look at your claim that we gassed the kurds in the 1920's and cannot find a single reputable source to confirm it but there many reputable and credible sources to say it was considered but never implemented so a link to your information would be helpful.

It didn't happen, in the 90's an American democratic senator or congressman claimed we did it and the slur has stuck, he should have just kept it simple to how it wouldn't have been possible for Saddam to have gassed Iranians or Kurds without our help.

---------- Post added at 01:46 ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

The problem is at some point people learn that your own Government can lie and that the West has done bad things. That the world isn't quite divided into good vs bad. With this breakthrough that every teenager thinks they alone have made they 'question everything' but in reality this often means simply replacing 'official' stories with conspiratorial ones irrespective of evidence.

But this is where that development stops and they spend the rest of their lives with that mindset rather than taking a nuanced approach that would suggest sometimes the 'bad' people are also acting in self-interest, they too can lie and sometimes they're in the wrong and not Britain/America/France/whatever.

They think they're resistant to propaganda, that they have 'open minds' but they're the most easily manipulated of them all. Just by a different country is all.

Bad things like almost doubling the number of civilian deaths from air strikes

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...st-double-year

Guess that's different from gassing people although the effects are pretty much the same admittedly, they're still dead

---------- Post added at 01:49 ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

It's pretty worrying if that were the reason. Can't have military actions provoked because the President is upset.

I think action needs to be taken but I think Russia are too entrenched in Syria now. On Sky News a guest pointed out that the Russians have Russian-manned anti-aircraft guns. Would the US attack those? Would they risk ignoring them and, if so, would Russia attack the US to stop them attacking Syria?

Maybe the die was cast back when Parliament voted not to go with the US in supporting anti-Assad air-strikes - Labour voted against - which undermined the US ability to go in.

Further economic isolation of Russia might be an answer. The Russian economy did take a bad hit after they invaded Ukraine and how long can Putin maintain strong control if he loses support of powerful, rich, Russians?

Thing about the Russians is they can take almost any level of deprivation and suffering, maybe not the crooks at the top who have raped the country but the ordinary people, sanctions won't bother them at all imo

Well not possible strikes anymore they have started guess we will have to wait and see what happens now.

Multiple Chemical weapon facilities targeted in Syria.