Brexit discussion

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

In other jurisdictions they'd be in clink for undermining the state.

lol, never mind post Brexit, enemies of ze state will probably face summary execution

(wonder where this is all going ? Probably not in a direction that a lot of those that voted for Brexit wanted or foresaw)

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I think it's worse than that. There are those who appear to be actively working to make the worst come true to vindicate their misbeliefs, even if that means taking the country down with them.

In other jurisdictions they'd be in clink for undermining the state.

Thankfully we live in the UK and not North Korea.

Originally Posted by Mr K

To be accurate Mick I said NHS EU workers (those that we most need) were leaving, which is unfortunately the case.

http://www.nationalhealthexecutive.c...ctive-to-staff

https://www.gponline.com/hundreds-gp...rticle/1450007

I said earlier in this thread that WHO (World Health Organisation) conducted a review in 2013, that said the whole planet is suffering a pandemic of nursing shortages. Millions of vacancies worldwide are being left unfilled, because people are not wanting to take up the nursing role, as more older nurses are retiring.

You keep banging on about EU nationals coming here to do nursing jobs, why aren't the millions of UK nationals taking up the job, why are they going in to other professions?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I think it's worse than that. There are those who appear to be actively working to make the worst come true to vindicate their misbeliefs, even if that means taking the country down with them.

In other jurisdictions they'd be in clink for undermining the state.

Yes, John Redwood has indeed been doing exactly this. But unlike those who don't wish job-seekers to exercise their democratic rights, I think he's entitled to his views.
John Redwood tells investors to withdraw money from UK and move it into the faster-growing EU states

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I think it's worse than that. There are those who appear to be actively working to make the worst come true to vindicate their misbeliefs, even if that means taking the country down with them.

In other jurisdictions they'd be in clink for undermining the state.

That's definitely the case. It's a very sad mentality, especially when many of these same people spend their lives telling us all how they respect democracy. I've just been listening to David Miliband telling those of us who voted for Brexit how stupid we were and how ashamed he is of the UK's decision. What a total hypocrite.

Originally Posted by Osem

That's definitely the case. It's a very sad mentality, especially when many of these same people spend their lives telling us all how they respect democracy. I've just been listening to David Miliband telling those of us who voted for Brexit how stupid we were and how ashamed he is of the UK's decision. What a total hypocrite.

So?

Democracy doesn't mean you have to like the decision, think the decision was a good idea or work to overturn the decision so long as you do that via democratic means.

If Labour were to win the election would you think it was a wise choice to be proud of or would you think it's stupid and be ashamed of it? Many on here have criticised people who've voted Labour, how it that different?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

So?

Democracy doesn't mean you have to like the decision, think the decision was a good idea or work to overturn the decision so long as you do that via democratic means.

If Labour were to win the election would you think it was a wise choice to be proud of or would you think it's stupid and be ashamed of it?

Point missed. They really can dislike the decision as much as they like - spend the rest of their lives being bitter and twisted about it for all I care. What I object to is their constant attempts to undermine and overturn the process which was legitimately agreed upon and executed at the referendum. If Labour won the next election I'd be horrified but I wouldn't start claiming that people didn't really know what they were voting for and trying to challenge the result by claiming the process was flawed or whatever.

Originally Posted by Osem

Point missed. They really can dislike the decision as much as they like - spend the rest of their lives being bitter and twisted about it for all I care. What I object to is their constant attempts to undermine and overturn the process which was legitimately agreed upon and executed at the referendum. If Labour won the next election I'd be horrified but I would start claiming people didn't know what they were voting for and trying to challenge the result.

But you criticised Miliband for criticising the decision. That's what I was referring too. People do claim people didn't know what they were voting for when voting Labour, saying they were tricked, same with the Yes campaign for Independence in Scotland.

As for the wider point I think people put too much faith in the idea that because the decision was taken democratically that the process would prove to be easier than it has been. The issue of the EU was not settled and put to bed in the referendum, it is probably more divisive than the issue has ever been, but it did set us on a course to leave which neither of the main parties has actually opposed.

If Labour won with JC, JM, DA and ET (No not ET the alien, Emily Thornberry), it would be an overnight disaster. This is not fear mongering, this is reality, the value of the pound would drop to record lows against the dollar.

As JC offloads billions of pounds, they do not have and distributes it equally among the population, watch as the already crumbling UK public services, fall completely, people no longer strive to improve themselves, they don't need to, they could sit on their arse and get the same as the next person, who studied for years, works a 60 hour week, but they will be taxed to death, to help pay for and maintain the equal distribution.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Osem

Point missed. They really can dislike the decision as much as they like - spend the rest of their lives being bitter and twisted about it for all I care. What I object to is their constant attempts to undermine and overturn the process which was legitimately agreed upon and executed at the referendum. If Labour won the next election I'd be horrified but I wouldn't start claiming that people didn't really know what they were voting for and trying to challenge the result by claiming the process was flawed or whatever.

I've bookmarked this post as one day you might need reminding of the bit in bold .

Cheers

Dave

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

I've bookmarked this post as one day you might need reminding of the bit in bold .

Cheers

Dave

It's ok, I will do that if there is actually power running and I am not starving to death, i.e Venezuela style hunger.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

But you criticised Miliband for criticising the decision. That's what I was referring too. People do claim people didn't know what they were voting for when voting Labour, saying they were tricked, same with the Yes campaign for Independence in Scotland.

As for the wider point I think people put too much faith in the idea that because the decision was taken democratically that the process would prove to be easier than it has been. The issue of the EU was not settled and put to bed in the referendum, it is probably more divisive than the issue has ever been, but it did set us on a course to leave which neither of the main parties has actually opposed.

No I criticised him specifically for claiming we didn't know what we were voting for. He's entitled to disagree with the outcome but not to patronise all of us who voted to leave.

The EU is an exemplar for complexity, bureaucracy and over-complication - I don't know anyone who thought the process would a) be easy or b) be made easy by the EU who've always made it clear that they don't like their vision of the future and authority challenged.

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:37 ----------

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

I've bookmarked this post as one day you might need reminding of the bit in bold .

Cheers

Dave

Feel free to be disappointed then.

If Labour win that'll be the least of your concerns and if they don't you'll have to put up with the Tories again.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

It's ok, I will do that if there is actually power running and I am not starving to death, i.e Venezuela style hunger.

Yeah lol.

People like Corbyn spend their lives banging on about Cuba, Venezuela etc. yet have precious little to say about them now. Many of their supporters either don't seem to care about how wrong they were or just can't admit it because to do so would only highlight the fact.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Mick

It's ok, I will do that if there is actually power running and I am not starving to death, i.e Venezuela style hunger.

Why? Do you not think that leaving the EU will bode well for our reliance on fuel/energy/food imports?

Cheers

Dave

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

Why? Do you not think that leaving the EU will bode well for our reliance on fuel/energy/food imports?

Cheers

Dave

Why do you think it won't ?

Either way, Socialism does not work. Surely you see this with Venezuela ?

This is exactly what JC represents and he is a good buddy of President Maduro, who is now running a dictatorship. You want this for the UK ?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

It's ok, I will do that if there is actually power running and I am not starving to death, i.e Venezuela style hunger.

More Original project Fear rears its head.