Government & Post Election Discussion

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Because they will never accept anything that Corbyn suggests. They will do it in their own time table

I predict the 1% cap will be removed within the next 18months.

Is that because Theresa May won't be in charge by then? (My gut feeling is she will be PM, in charge being a different question.)

Originally Posted by Osem

Ah the old 'race to the bottom' argument. Tell that to those who are at the bottom most of whom are in the private sector.

But that isn't an argument against public sector pay rises, it's an argument for better pay at the bottom of the private sector. The wage stagnation was part of the reason the Tories suffered at the election but it's harder for government to directly address.

I am all for addressing that issue as well but it isn't going to solved by restricting the pay of nurses, teachers and other public sector workers. They've had the freeze since 2012, the least they could expect is to be kept up with inflation.

[Gary L]

I think it's amusing how popular Corbyn was at Glastonbury. and even more amusing listening to Mr O have a strop because of how popular he is

Originally Posted by Gary L

I think it's amusing how popular Corbyn was at Glastonbury. and even more amusing listening to Mr O have a strop because of how popular he is

He is far from popular. If he was popular, he would have won the election. Had anyone else other than him be Labour leader, then we would be looking at a Labour government.

But we're in what, 2nd week of Parliament, yet it's business as usual in Labour, resignations, sackings etc

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

But that isn't an argument against public sector pay rises, it's an argument for better pay at the bottom of the private sector. The wage stagnation was part of the reason the Tories suffered at the election but it's harder for government to directly address.

I am all for addressing that issue as well but it isn't going to solved by restricting the pay of nurses, teachers and other public sector workers. They've had the freeze since 2012, the least they could expect is to be kept up with inflation.

Whichever party one supports there were clear messages from the general election result and one either heeds those messages or faces inevitable electoral defeat and the Conservatives if they are to survive for the full life of parliament would be wise to listen to those messages because if they just close their eyes and keep going on the same path then they will be lucky if they last 2 years let alone the full term IMO

Yes Corbyn is a poor Labour leader but compared to Theresa May the perception of him and some of the messages we saw at the last general election and the vote by the public saw a increased vote for him so it would be folly to assume that just because its Corbyn he won't get to 10 Downing Street as it was folly by the Conservatives and the Conservative media to assume and propagate that clear daily message during the general election campaign which clearly as we all know backfired totally and was no doubt in many peoples minds the worst Conservative election campaign in history and many of the Conservative media were made to look stupid as their personal characterisation assault on him like the Conservative party backfired dismally.

Not being a very wise man myself one listens and learns and if one does not take that those lessons on board then the end result is inevitable...

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I think it's amusing how popular Corbyn was at Glastonbury. and even more amusing listening to Mr O have a strop because of how popular he is

he's a good turn but he's on too long

Corbyn's 'surge' reminds me of Scottish Independence in a way in that people have projected their own politics and hopes onto him so that he embodies it all, all things to all people, rather than what he actually believes and would do. You have pro-European liberals viewing him as a British Macron which is pretty far from his actually politics, Cameron embodies that more than Corbyn does.

Corbyn's view of trade is pretty protectionist rather than open. He is closer to UKIP on that score. He has very little to say by electoral reform. He has very little to say about the importance of privacy in a digital age.

[heero_yuy]

In these strange times, it is frightening that a number of people are prepared to give this Corbyn thing a go. What could possibly go wrong?

A lot would go wrong in a socialist economic revolution, as history shows.

I’m not alone in thinking Corbyn is rather naive and idealistic, thinking presumably that this process of transforming the economy to an anti-market system would be rather nice, joyful and peaceful. And there you get to the heart of why this stuff always leads to coercion, control and terror.

Several things happen when it is tried, after the initial shock that leads to capital flight and panic. There are case studies from Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, East Germany, China and quite a few more.

The socialist economic revolution begins, but not everyone agrees that the economic revolution is a good idea.

They like their property and even if it is not stolen or taxed heavily in the first wave, they fear it will be next. Or they want to own property in the future or they simply have a job they like and want order.

Comment by Iain Martin. Read full piece

[papa smurf]

Fury as students ‘openly boast of voting TWICE’ for Corbyn’s Labour - rules review called

Ms Leadsom was responding to a concern raised by Wellingborough Tory MP Peter Bone who said that boasts by Leftwing students of voting where they went to university and in their home constituencies had been posted online.

He said: “It has been brought to my attention that people can be registered to vote in a general election in two places.I am registered in London and in my constituency.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...vote-electoral

[Osem]

This is how much Corbyn's cronies care about democracy:

Momentum organisers are laying the groundwork to deselect Thangam Debbonaire, the Bristol West MP and cancer survivor who won the second highest number of Labour votes in Britain. An amendment to Labour’s constitution – intended to make it easier to challenge and deselect sitting MPs – was backed by local Momentum members last night. That move is expected to be repeated across the country, meaning the deselection amendment will likely be debated at conference in September. A Labour source told the Bristol Post:

“It’s scandalous that a clique of Jeremy Corbyn supporters refuse to accept the huge mandate that Thangam received at the general election.“

https://order-order.com/2017/06/30/m...ncer-survivor/

Nobody should be under any illusion about who these people are, what they represent and the means they will resort to in order to obtain power. Some folks really need to wake up and see what's happening to Labour right under their noses.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Fury as students ‘openly boast of voting TWICE’ for Corbyn’s Labour - rules review called

Ms Leadsom was responding to a concern raised by Wellingborough Tory MP Peter Bone who said that boasts by Leftwing students of voting where they went to university and in their home constituencies had been posted online.

He said: “It has been brought to my attention that people can be registered to vote in a general election in two places.I am registered in London and in my constituency.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...vote-electoral

Sounds as though cheeky Peter Bonehead might have voted twice himself !

Don't know why it's a surprise that students are registered in 2 places, it's always been the case as it might/might not be term time or not when the election is called. The chances of widespread fraud are small, it's unlikely a student would risk criminal proceeding and mucking up their whole life for poxy politicians. This is more likely to be sour grapes that the young have had the cheek to vote at all, and that they haven't voted Tory.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Sounds as though cheeky Peter Bonehead might have voted twice himself !

Don't know why it's a surprise that students are registered in 2 places, it's always been the case as it might/might not be term time or not when the election is called. The chances of widespread fraud are small, it's unlikely a student would risk criminal proceeding and mucking up their whole life for poxy politicians. This is more likely to be sour grapes that the young have had the cheek to vote at all, and that they haven't voted Tory.

or it's election fraud ,i can understand why you would want to just sweep it under the rug but this must be investigated ,what studdy have you based your comments on and can you link to it .

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

or it's election fraud ,i can understand why you would want to just sweep it under the rug but this must be investigated ,what studdy have you based your comments on and can you link to it .

well if anyone has voted twice it should be investigated. Peter hasn't got any evidence, just right wing innuendo , there will be evidence if this has happened. There's are masses of potential for fraud, postal voting, not needing any id at the polling station etc. Just concentrating in students would seem to be political, because they've voted the wrong way for Boneheads liking. More young people have voted, that's good, not fraud.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

well if anyone has voted twice it should be investigated. Peter hasn't got any evidence, just right wing innuendo , there will be evidence if this has happened. There's are masses of potential for fraud, postal voting, not needing any id at the polling station etc. Just concentrating in students would seem to be political, because they've voted the wrong way for Boneheads liking. More young people have voted, that's good, not fraud.

they have apparently been bragging on line , that's an admission of guilt ,you seem to be disrespecting mr bone for seeking out the truth .is that the labour way disrespect and cover up ?

Originally Posted by Mr K

Sounds as though cheeky Peter Bonehead might have voted twice himself !

Don't know why it's a surprise that students are registered in 2 places, it's always been the case as it might/might not be term time or not when the election is called. The chances of widespread fraud are small, it's unlikely a student would risk criminal proceeding and mucking up their whole life for poxy politicians. This is more likely to be sour grapes that the young have had the cheek to vote at all, and that they haven't voted Tory.

Absolute nonsense. Voting twice in a General Election, is fraud regardless of voting intentions, you say this is not wide spread, you have no idea but even if it is just 10 or 10,000 additional votes, it's enough in some constituencies to change the result given how many had very slim majorities. It is cheating and disrespecting to democracy, but given how you have no respect for it, it's not surprising you would just turn a blind eye to it because the result did not go your way.