Government & Post Election Discussion

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

that's not how it works in the public sector Smurf. Even if you exceed targets you've still been getting less than inflation over the last 7 years.

Why all this bleating about the public sector?

There is very little difference between public sector and private sector.

There are equally, probably alot more, lower paid workers in the private sector that do just as important jobs.

Wages in both sectors have failed to increase over the past years. Working at NTL/VM I remember after the Dot.Com crash in 2000 we didn't get a pay rise for something like 5 years - 0%. Not 1%. Even now as The Smuf point out 2% is the median and has been for over a decade meaning many only get 1% or less.

Yes bankers, CEO's etc get big money.

But there is big money in the public sector

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...stigation.html

Difference is, that is tax payers money. You want to complain, complain about that.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Why all this bleating about the public sector?

There is very little difference between public sector and private sector.

There are equally, probably alot more, lower paid workers in the private sector that do just as important jobs.

Wages in both sectors have failed to increase over the past years. Working at NTL/VM I remember after the Dot.Com crash in 2000 we didn't get a pay rise for something like 5 years - 0%. Not 1%. Even now as The Smuf point out 2% is the median and has been for over a decade meaning many only get 1% or less.

Yes bankers, CEO's etc get big money.

But there is big money in the public sector

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...stigation.html

Difference is, that is tax payers money. You want to complain, complain about that.

The 1% quoted is in fact a ceiling not an automatic pay rise. Relatively few people even get the 1%. In the area of the public sector I work, the rewards in the private sector are significantly better if you're lucky enough to get in.
I'm sure you're correct about some at the top of the food chain in the public sector raking it in, tho' I doubt your link will provide any rational insight to the issue.

Originally Posted by denphone

They can wrap it up whatever way they want but they are totally ineffective now and were straight after the General Election results and no amount of moving the chairs around on board the sinking ship will convince the country any different.

Sorry Den but that's not right, they will be ineffective if they cannot get bills passed in to law, if the opposition puts an amendment forward or the government wants to get a bill passed, they are ineffective if they consistently get voted down, or a bill fails to get passed.

They have the numbers, however small they are to be effective, even it means just a majority of 1, it's not ideal, but it's effective because it is still a pass, if its a bill or a vote down, if it's an amendment.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Mick

Sorry Den but that's not right, they will be ineffective if they cannot get bills passed in to law, if the opposition puts an amendment forward or the government wants to get a bill passed, they are ineffective if they consistently get voted down, or a bill fails to get passed.

They have the numbers, however small they are to be effective, even it means just a majority of 1, it's not ideal, but it's effective because it is still a pass, if its a bill or a vote down, if it's an amendment.

Most of the bills they have are Brexit bills so l can't see much problem there with those going through as the vast majority of Conservative and labour MP's will generally support them.

Therever with the other bills and amendments they will have to adapt and negotiate to the new circumstances of parliament which they are now in given the maths we now have as whether it was the Conservative or Labour party were the governing party the sentiment still remains the same as where we are now and l think you know why we are now in this position as do most people...

Originally Posted by Mick

Sorry Den but that's not right, they will be ineffective if they cannot get bills passed in to law, if the opposition puts an amendment forward or the government wants to get a bill passed, they are ineffective if they consistently get voted down, or a bill fails to get passed.

They have the numbers, however small they are to be effective, even it means just a majority of 1, it's not ideal, but it's effective because it is still a pass, if its a bill or a vote down, if it's an amendment.

They could have voted for the amendment without bringing down the bill. The amendment would simply be part of the bill they'll vote on today and I doubt the amendment would have stopped the Queen's Speech being voted for.

It was a very effective bit of politics from the opposition though, the Tories lose either way.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

They could have voted for the amendment without bringing down the bill. The amendment would simply be part of the bill they'll vote on today and I doubt the amendment would have stopped the Queen's Speech being voted for.

It was a very effective bit of politics from the opposition though, the Tories lose either way.

If the positions were reversed l am pretty sure they would do the same.

I don't actually understand why the Tories judged to be politically more tolerable to vote it down than accept the amendment. I assume there was a good reason why the amendment passing was bad for them that I am missing

Queen speech survives Government votes.

Ayes: 323 Noes: 309 Majority: 14

The Ayes have it, the ayes have it!

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't actually understand why the Tories judged to be politically more tolerable to vote it down than accept the amendment. I assume there was a good reason why the amendment passing was bad for them that I am missing

Because they will never accept anything that Corbyn suggests. They will do it in their own time table

I predict the 1% cap will be removed within the next 18months.

[Osem]

Plenty of people deserve more than they're getting outside the public sector, in fact many more of them given the numbers employed in each sector. Public sector pensions may not be as good as they were but many private sector workers have no pension at all.

Originally Posted by Osem

Plenty of people deserve more than they're getting outside the public sector, in fact many more of them given the numbers employed in each sector. Public sector pensions may not be as good as they were but many private sector workers have no pension at all.

Yeah but the government has less direct control over the private sector. I don't see it as a race to the bottom whereby the public sector should be compared against the bottom of the private sector.

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Because they will never accept anything that Corbyn suggests. They will do it in their own time table

I predict the 1% cap will be removed within the next 18months.

Yeah but it seems worse to me to be seen to have voted it down (and the unwise relief they showed) than being seen to accept a Labour amendment.

Blame the corbynistas Damien if the tories had accepted it they would have been straight onto social media saying it showed corbyn should be running things UK politics has rarely been in such a sorry state.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yeah but the government has less direct control over the private sector. I don't see it as a race to the bottom whereby the public sector should be compared against the bottom of the private sector.

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------



Yeah but it seems worse to me to be seen to have voted it down (and the unwise relief they showed) than being seen to accept a Labour amendment.

Ah the old 'race to the bottom' argument. Tell that to those who are at the bottom most of whom are in the private sector.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I believe that everyone deserves more money, no matter what job they have.

The biggest problems we have is the employer.
You have the small employer, who has to scrape by. Who employs say 5 workers. They pay there staff wages, plus bonus.

I used to work a company like that. I done 'price work' the more work you done, the more you got. But it nearly ruined my marriage. Did't see my kids grow up as l was always working. It nearly killed me.

A very good mate of mine said. You work to live, not live to work. How right he was.

I have worked for a company that paid me £19.000 per year. That was the same pay l left on four years later He didn't pay bonus, each xmas l got a £10.00 voucher for a meal at a local restaurant.

Employers now, think of one thing, what profit they can make. And know that they can hire employees on the cheap. Big companies don't care of the worker at ground level.

I met a mate of mine yesterday, and he was road sweeping for an agency. He told me that the local council pay the agency £15.00 per hour for his services. He gets £8.50. Whose making the profit here.

If you go to the job centre. 90% of the time - its an agency, that you go to. And wage is dismal.

Whose making the money.

Its about time Labour, and the Conservatives thought about the 'worker' at the end of the day. As if it wasn't through them. Most of there work wouldn't get done

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I believe that everyone deserves more money, no matter what job they have.

The biggest problems we have is the employer.
You have the small employer, who has to scrape by. Who employs say 5 workers. They pay there staff wages, plus bonus.

I used to work a company like that. I done 'price work' the more work you done, the more you got. But it nearly ruined my marriage. Did't see my kids grow up as l was always working. It nearly killed me.

A very good mate of mine said. You work to live, not live to work. How right he was.

I have worked for a company that paid me £19.000 per year. That was the same pay l left on four years later He didn't pay bonus, each xmas l got a £10.00 voucher for a meal at a local restaurant.

Employers now, think of one thing, what profit they can make. And know that they can hire employees on the cheap. Big companies don't care of the worker at ground level.

I met a mate of mine yesterday, and he was road sweeping for an agency. He told me that the local council pay the agency £15.00 per hour for his services. He gets £8.50. Whose making the profit here.

If you go to the job centre. 90% of the time - its an agency, that you go to. And wage is dismal.

Whose making the money.

Its about time Labour, and the Conservatives thought about the 'worker' at the end of the day. As if it wasn't through them. Most of there work wouldn't get done

i worked for an agency for a few weeks i would never do it again i agree about what they pay its terrible but as for every one deserves more money what are the economics behind this gesture .