Post-Brexit Thread

In a general election the Government is elected with a manifesto. In a referendum the Leave campaign won with a mandate to leave the European Union. Anything after that is a matter in which the whole country has a say.

Brexit and the subsequent deal will be one of the biggest events in our modern history and it's consequences, good and/or bad, will be be felt across the country and maybe even for generations to come. It's sheer lunacy to demand that only the 52% that voted for it have input into that. It's also pretty stupid tactically to intentionally attempt to provoke 48% of people who voted Remain.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Damien

In a general election the Government is elected with a manifesto. In a referendum the Leave campaign won with a mandate to leave the European Union. Anything after that is a matter in which the whole country has a say.

Brexit and the subsequent deal will be one of the biggest events in our modern history and it's consequences, good and/or bad, will be be felt across the country and maybe even for generations to come. It's sheer lunacy to demand that only the 52% that voted for it have input into that. It's also pretty stupid tactically to intentionally attempt to provoke 48% of people who voted Remain.

parliament might have a say but "the whole country" ? i doubt the advice of the people will be sought at every decision ,its down to members of parliament now .

if things run true to form mp's on either side will follow their own agenda despite what 48% v 52% want .

Originally Posted by papa smurf

parliament might have a say but "the whole country" ? i doubt the advice of the people will be sought at every decision ,its down to members of parliament now .

if things run true to form mp's on either side will follow their own agenda despite what 48% v 52% want .

Parliament represents the country or at least in theory it does. Either way Parliament is how I would want it to work so that's fine.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Damien

Parliament represents the country or at least in theory it does. Either way Parliament is how I would want it to work so that's fine.

represents the country might be pushing it a bit -we must keep a watchful eye on them or it all might go pear shaped once they start representing themselves .

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

represents the country might be pushing it a bit -we must keep a watchful eye on them or it all might go pear shaped once they start representing themselves .

That's why we have regular elections.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

The government managed to give Nissan assurances that meant they would be staying so why can't the government do the same for the rest of industry ?

Agreed. That reassurance had the whiff of make-it-up-as-you-go-along politics.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's why we have regular elections.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------


Agreed. That reassurance had the whiff of make-it-up-as-you-go-along politics.

would you have liked to have a vote on it ?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

In a general election the Government is elected with a manifesto. In a referendum the Leave campaign won with a mandate to leave the European Union. Anything after that is a matter in which the whole country has a say.

Well explained. I really don't get why some people fail to understand this point.

---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

would you have liked to have a vote on it ?

No, I'm all referendumed out. But mainly because they're the elected Government whose role it is to manage the situation. I remain at liberty to criticise them when I perceive they're not doing a good job.

So what's the EU's position and plan do we know yet?.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

In a general election the Government is elected with a manifesto. In a referendum the Leave campaign won with a mandate to leave the European Union. Anything after that is a matter in which the whole country has a say.

Brexit and the subsequent deal will be one of the biggest events in our modern history and it's consequences, good and/or bad, will be be felt across the country and maybe even for generations to come. It's sheer lunacy to demand that only the 52% that voted for it have input into that. It's also pretty stupid tactically to intentionally attempt to provoke 48% of people who voted Remain.

Interesting. However, if we had voted to remain, would the remainers have listened to the exiteers on what kind of Europe we wanted it to be?

I doubt it, somehow.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

So what's the EU's position and plan do we know yet?.

They are busy waiting for us to get our act together enough to give them a clue of what we want .They can't do a damn thing until they know what we want

---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

parliament might have a say but "the whole country" ? i doubt the advice of the people will be sought at every decision ,its down to members of parliament now .

if things run true to form mp's on either side will follow their own agenda despite what 48% v 52% want .

Then it's down to all voters,brexiters and remainers to ensure that doesn't happen.

---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Interesting. However, if we had voted to remain, would the remainers have listened to the exiteers on what kind of Europe we wanted it to be?

I doubt it, somehow.

Well that's a bit of a nonsense thing to say .We where voting to either stay in Europe or leave Europe ,there was never an option to change Europe to our way of liking ,the only thing we can change is our membership

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Interesting. However, if we had voted to remain, would the remainers have listened to the exiteers on what kind of Europe we wanted it to be?

I doubt it, somehow.

A bizarre comment. A vote to remain was for the status quo, it wasn't to join the Eurozone or to alter our relationship with Europe in any way.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

A bizarre comment. A vote to remain was for the status quo, it wasn't to join the Eurozone or to alter our relationship with Europe in any way.

Except to remain would mean ever closer union and erosion of the individual nations - the avowed aim of the EU and NOT the status quo.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by martyh

They are busy waiting for us to get our act together enough to give them a clue of what we want .They can't do a damn thing until they know what we want

---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------



Then it's down to all voters,brexiters and remainers to ensure that doesn't happen.

---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------



Well that's a bit of a nonsense thing to say .We where voting to either stay in Europe or leave Europe ,there was never an option to change Europe to our way of liking ,the only thing we can change is our membership

what about soft remain or hard remain
who interprets what remain means
would there be another referendum before we officially remained
would the government trigger remain or would it go to the courts so that parliament could interfere
---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:03 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

A bizarre comment. A vote to remain was for the status quo, it wasn't to join the Eurozone or to alter our relationship with Europe in any way.

was that bit about status quo on the ballot paper ?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Except to remain would mean ever closer union and erosion of the individual nations - the avowed aim of the EU and NOT the status quo.

Just suppose you're right (I don't believe you are for one moment but that's incidental) and greater integration was proposed. That would be up to the Government of the day to decide upon, not those who voted one way or the other in a previous referendum about staying in the EU.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's also pretty stupid tactically to intentionally attempt to provoke 48% of people who voted Remain.

The leave side didn't take this to the high court, remain did (Gina Miller). Leave aren't proposing terms that are identical to us staying in, in all but name, remain are (Nick Clegg). Leave aren't trying to get the govt to disclose it's thinking and planning prematurely, leave are.
Who's provoking who?

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

Article 50 may have already been triggered

The man behind a fresh Brexit legal case says there is ample evidence to suggest that the UK government has already triggered Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.
"If you look at the terms of Article 50 itself, one of the terms is there has to be a decision and there has to be notification. The government's position is there has been a decision. So, what you're left with is the requirement that there be notification. We know that in October Theresa May met with her fellow leaders at an EU council meeting and told them we were leaving. Now, there's no requirement in Article 50 that notification must be served on heavy watermarked paper. There is no requirement for formality at all.

"If you then cast your net more widely and you look around at the surrounding circumstances, you can see that the EU are now meeting privately without us. Article 50 says this is something that is not supposed to happen until after we have triggered it. If you look at the fact that the EU has appointed negotiators — that's something that's not supposed to happen until after we have triggered Article 50. If you look at the fact they've formulated their negotiating strategy — that's something that shouldn't happen until after you trigger Article 50.