Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order

[pip08456]

Try telling that to someone who has suffered it. I know someone who is 50 yrs old now and still blames themself and had to put herself between her younger sister and her father to save the sister.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Try telling that to someone who has suffered it. I know someone who is 50 yrs old now and still blames themself and had to put herself between her younger sister and her father to save the sister.

Yes and why is that ? Because when the offence happens to you it becomes emotional & personal.

Our legal society cannot nor should it be based on emotion.

It then becomes about revenge as opposed to justice.

[pip08456]

So you are happy with someones life being wrecked for 44 years...

Whatever the debate between rape and murder both of which also affect the wider family this piece of **** got off way way too lightly and it makes our justice system a total joke. Society exists and continues to function only as long as the majority have faith in the structures of society, if enough start to lose faith we get social disorder and a general breakdown of socierty. Things like this take a low public opinion of the justice system and further erode that opinion that's not even taking the reaction of racists who love having this sort of incident to stir things up. I would like this judge to explain how his sentence was appropriate and how he felt he'd served justice to the community as I'm honestly lost trying to figure out how this **** didn't end up with a custodial sentence.

If the argument is "overcrowding" then we need to build more facilities and as a temp stop gap we could clear out tv's, gaming systems and other nice little things our prison population enjoys making a little more space to fit more in.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by pip08456

So you are happy with someones life being wrecked for 44 years...

Would you rather they were dead.

In fact, don't answer, you have your perspective,I have mine and never the twain shall meet.

[pip08456]

You are talking about Anarchy which, hopefully, would never come to fruition. Both politicians and the judiciary need to realise the concerns of the people they purport to represent.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Whatever the debate between rape and murder both of which also affect the wider family this piece of **** got off way way too lightly and it makes our justice system a total joke. Society exists and continues to function only as long as the majority have faith in the structures of society, if enough start to lose faith we get social disorder and a general breakdown of socierty. Things like this take a low public opinion of the justice system and further erode that opinion that's not even taking the reaction of racists who love having this sort of incident to stir things up. I would like this judge to explain how his sentence was appropriate and how he felt he'd served justice to the community as I'm honestly lost trying to figure out how this **** didn't end up with a custodial sentence.

If the argument is "overcrowding" then we need to build more facilities and as a temp stop gap we could clear out tv's, gaming systems and other nice little things our prison population enjoys making a little more space to fit more in.

AFAIK a judge operates by sentencing guidelines, it must also be remembered that the guilty party is still legally ' a child'

I too believe that the sentencing is lenient, however, a child of that age would not be placed into the adult prison population. a custodial sentence in a juvenile detention centre would be the appropriate option

Also, legally it must be considered that any guilty party must also been given the opportunity to rehabilitate themselves into society in all but the most serious of cases. I believe that when offences take place where the guilty is legally considered a child that the emphasis is placed on rehabilitation and or treatment as opposed to a custodial sentence.

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:52 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

You are talking about Anarchy which, hopefully, would never come to fruition. Both politicians and the judiciary need to realise the concerns of the people they purport to represent.

No, I'm not. I'm talking about dealing with a highly emotive subject in a non emotive manner.

If politicians and the judiciary based policy purely on the emotive and potentially ill informed and over reactive general public (Which thankfully it doesn't) then we would probably see a return to the death penalty.

Something, as a member of a civilised society I would hate to see. (But that's another discussion)

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

AFAIK a judge operates by sentencing guidelines, it must also be remembered that the guilty party is still legally ' a child'

I too believe that the sentencing is lenient, however, a child of that age would not be placed into the adult prison population. a custodial sentence in a juvenile detention centre would be the appropriate option

Also, legally it must be considered that any guilty party must also been given the opportunity to rehabilitate themselves into society in all but the most serious of cases. I believe that when offences take place where the guilty is legally considered a child that the emphasis is placed on rehabilitation and or treatment as opposed to a custodial sentence.

Legally a child is only up to the age of 13 IIRC you only have to think of the Bulger case.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Legally a child is only up to the age of 13 IIRC you only have to think of the Bulger case.

You're wrong, it's the age of criminal responsibility

The age of criminal responsibility in England and Wales is 10 years old.
This means that children under 10 can’t be arrested or charged with a crime. There are other punishments that can be given to children under 10 who break the law.

Children over 10
Children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.

They are treated differently from adults and are:

dealt with by youth courts
given different sentences
sent to special secure centres for young people, not adult prisons
Young people aged 18
Young people aged 18 are treated as an adult by the law.

If they’re sent to prison, they’ll be sent to a place that holds 18 to 25-year-olds, not a full adult prison.

[nomadking]

A 5 year old is a lot more of a child than a 15 year old. Age only comes into it were they don't appreciate that what they did is a crime. In this case they did know it was a crime and they WILL repeat it at some stage.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

A 5 year old is a lot more of a child than a 15 year old. Age only comes into it were they don't appreciate that what they did is a crime. In this case they did know it was a crime and they WILL repeat it at some stage.

As above, age does come into it.

You know they WILL repeat it as much as you know next weeks lottery numbers. You can make a guess based on opinion and evidence. Nothing more, nothing less.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

As above, age does come into it.

You know they WILL repeat it as much as you know next weeks lottery numbers. You can make a guess based on opinion and evidence. Nothing more, nothing less.

If somebody has the attitude that not only is it ok to force yourself on anybody, and its ok with a 5 year old, nothing is going to change that.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If somebody has the attitude that not only is it ok to force yourself on anybody, and its ok with a 5 year old, nothing is going to change that.

Again, you can't say that for definite. You can only approximate and make best guesses.

Even at it's highest appox 38% of young offenders reoffended within the 1st 12 months.

Thats 62% who didn't, I don't have the stats for after that but would be interested to see.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Again, you can't say that for definite. You can only approximate and make best guesses.

Even at it's highest appox 38% of young offenders reoffended within the 1st 12 months.

Thats 62% who didn't, I don't have the stats for after that but would be interested to see.

Those rates assume that the first time they are locked away is the first crime they've committed and that the reoffending is the first time they've committed since release and not simply the first time they've been caught. It in no way whatsoever takes account of proclivities to sexually attack 5 year olds. After all, other groups keep saying "it's our sexuality you can't change us".

We have juvenile detention centres in the UK and he should be in one because if his crime doesn't warrant a custodial sentence what the hell apart from murder does. As for rehabilitation that's all well and good but an element of revenge is needed in any justice system or you'll have people taking the law into their own hands which is not something any of us want to see. In a perfect world all criminals would go to prison embrace the chance to rehabilitate and come out a benefit to society and we as a public would be happy with that. It isn't a perfect world and speaking as a parent if anyone had done this to one of my kids and got off so lightly I'd have taken matters into my own hands not nice to say not right to say but i don't know a single parent that wouldn't feel the same. Justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done so that the anger in victims and their families has a vent and society can be confident that those who are a threat are removed for our protection.