Post-Brexit Thread

I find it a bit rich farron demanding the will of the people be respected when he's called for it to be ignored for the last few months amazing how his opinion changes when he see's a chance to stay in the EU. Parliament didn't want to deal with this issue and handed it over to the people to choose in a referendum but because the majority didn't do as they were told now they want to decide on the issue. Bunch of spineless hypocrites the lot of them and proof positive that we need to kick most of them out sadly we won't get that chance for a bit.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I find it a bit rich farron demanding the will of the people be respected when he's called for it to be ignored for the last few months amazing how his opinion changes when he see's a chance to stay in the EU. Parliament didn't want to deal with this issue and handed it over to the people to choose in a referendum but because the majority didn't do as they were told now they want to decide on the issue. Bunch of spineless hypocrites the lot of them and proof positive that we need to kick most of them out sadly we won't get that chance for a bit.

Farron and his ilk just can't accept that the vast majority of people don't share their views and are in large part the cause of their abject electoral failure and the swing to the right we're seeing. No wonder they want to stay in the EU, it's infested with people just like them who're happy to listen to the people just as long as they agree with their masters...

Originally Posted by Osem

Farron and his ilk just can't accept that the vast majority of people don't share their views and are in large part the cause of their abject electoral failure and the swing to the right we're seeing. No wonder they want to stay in the EU, it's infested with people just like them who're happy to listen to the people just as long as they agree with their masters...

The Liberal Democrats represent liberals. They're meant to advocate for those values. It doesn't matter if it doesn't appeal to you or even the majority of people. What would the point of politics be if everyone agreed on everything?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

The Liberal Democrats represent liberals. They're meant to advocate for those values. It doesn't matter if it doesn't appeal to you or even the majority of people. What would the point of politics be if everyone agreed on everything?

Does Liberal mean only listening to what you want to hear then? It's not about agreeing on everything, it's about respecting what the majority have decided and Farron clearly doesn't so he's going to do his best to undermine that decision. He's welcome to carry on preaching the Lib Dem nonsense which has seen them virtually wiped out but he can't claim to be a Liberal if he doesn't respect the public's right to have a different view and the perfectly clear result of the referendum. In fact, if the vote had gone the other way and Farage had employed the same tactics Farron would have accused him of being a right wing extremist trying to undermine democracy...

Farron isn't a Liberal, he's an opportunist hypocrite.

Originally Posted by Osem

Does Liberal mean only listening to what you want to hear then? It's not about agreeing on everything, it's about respecting what the majority have decided and Farron clearly doesn't so he's going to do his best to undermine that decision.

Liberals are pro-EU and will continue to be so. In the same way UKIP wouldn't have packed up and gone home had they lost the referendum. The people who vote for them know this, for many this will be the reason they vote for them.

Democracy is always on-going. The Liberal Democrats have been decimated in Parliament and their side lost the referendum but they'll continue to campaign for what they believe in. In this case another referendum.

In fact, if the vote had gone the other way and Farage had employed the same tactics Farron would have accused him of being a right wing extremist trying to undermine democracy...

But that's exactly what Farage would have done. And I do not believe for a moment that the advocates for Brexit would have stopped all criticism of the EU and declared no desire for a future referendum had they lost.

I don't care about his political ideology i do care about his blatant hypocrisy and it isn't just him we have quite a few MP's crawling out of the woodwork talking about blocking brexit. Shame they didn't find their spine earlier and decide the issue rather then copping out and handing it to us to decide via a referendum and clearly they only did that as they expected us to vote in the way they wanted but because we didn't now they want to decide the issue.

You don't get to use democracy angle to overturn a truer demonstration of democracy just because it isn't what you like or wanted they are not interested in democracy that's just a smokescreen they care about their agenda their personal belief and stuff anyone that doesn't toe their line. It's clearly time for a big change in the political landscape as too many of our so called representatives have forgotten they work on our behalf we don't exist to purely further their agenda.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Shame they didn't find their spine earlier and decide the issue rather then copping out and handing it to us to decide via a referendum and clearly they only did that as they expected us to vote in the way they wanted but because we didn't now they want to decide the issue.

I think David Cameron doubted two things: 1) That he would win a majority so that the Liberal Democrats would not be able to prevent the referendum taking place. 2) Having been stuck with the referendum, he didn't think he'd lose it. Some great inside reads coming out in time for Christmas on how the out campaigns won including infiltrating Ukip to make it more moderate.
But as far as Parliament was concerned before the referendum, the matter was decided ie the status quo of remaining. And polls seemed to reflect this so why should MPs act differently?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think David Cameron doubted two things: 1) That he would win a majority so that the Liberal Democrats would not be able to prevent the referendum taking place. 2) Having been stuck with the referendum, he didn't think he'd lose it. Some great inside reads coming out in time for Christmas on how the out campaigns won including infiltrating Ukip to make it more moderate.
But as far as Parliament was concerned before the referendum, the matter was decided ie the status quo of remaining. And polls seemed to reflect this so why should MPs act differently?

do you have a link to back that up

If there was a majority to remain in the EU as polls said how did we end up voting to leave clearly a majority were not happy to remain in the EU or leave wouldn't have won. The biggest problem is too many still feel the leave campaign swung it for brexit despite the fact that person after person from all over the UK keeps stating their vote was decided long ago. The UK and the EU never really fitted together well it was a very fragile relationship that the majority of people i don't think really wanted after it ceased to be a purely trade based entity. Lets also not pretend that only the UK has anti EU sentiment it's growing all across the EU with many wanting out and next years elections in europe may well decide the future of the EU or even if it has a future.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

do you have a link to back that up

I am not sure if Andrew means the same source as this but: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01I9AEI...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

I haven't gotten that far yet but one part I did read was that Douglas Carswell defected to UKIP in order to moderate the party as he (as well as others around him, i.e. Hannan) thought that UKIP's rhetoric and Farage himself would damage any Leave campaign. Or so Carswell claims. I can't link to it because it's a book though. A very good book however.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Damien

I am not sure if Andrew means the same source as this but: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01I9AEI...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

I haven't gotten that far yet but one part I did read was that Douglas Carswell defected to UKIP in order to moderate the party as he (as well as others around him, i.e. Hannan) thought that UKIP's rhetoric and Farage himself would damage any Leave campaign. Or so Carswell claims. I can't link to it because it's a book though. A very good book however.

thanks for that

[Osem]

@ Damien - They're free to campaign for whatever they want, just as I'm free to point out their hypocrisy and double standards. I'm not sure even Farage could have accused Farron of being a right win extremist...

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Damien

The Liberal Democrats represent liberals. They're meant to advocate for those values. It doesn't matter if it doesn't appeal to you or even the majority of people.

Doesn't negate the fact that they are (in this case) being aholes

---------- Post added at 20:55 ---------- Previous post was at 20:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

Farron isn't a Liberal, he's an opportunist hypocrite.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

I am not sure if Andrew means the same source as this but: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01I9AEI...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

I haven't gotten that far yet but one part I did read was that Douglas Carswell defected to UKIP in order to moderate the party as he (as well as others around him, i.e. Hannan) thought that UKIP's rhetoric and Farage himself would damage any Leave campaign. Or so Carswell claims. I can't link to it because it's a book though. A very good book however.

I think it's mentioned in multiple books. The FT reviewed four books and wrote this "The Bad Boys of Brexit [by Arron Banks] details the contempt Farage had for Carswell’s efforts to undermine his leadership. At every juncture, the latter tried to soften Ukip’s message, and was partly successful. The skulduggery of the Tate plotters is testament to the passion of Eurosceptics — infiltrating another rightwing force in order to muzzle it.

You can read the article by googling "How Leave won: behind the scenes in the battle for Brexit"
Subscribers' direct link: https://www.ft.com/content/18211880-...9-02899e8bd9d1

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

If there was a majority to remain in the EU as polls said how did we end up voting to leave clearly a majority were not happy to remain in the EU or leave wouldn't have won. The biggest problem is too many still feel the leave campaign swung it for brexit despite the fact that person after person from all over the UK keeps stating their vote was decided long ago. The UK and the EU never really fitted together well it was a very fragile relationship that the majority of people i don't think really wanted after it ceased to be a purely trade based entity. Lets also not pretend that only the UK has anti EU sentiment it's growing all across the EU with many wanting out and next years elections in europe may well decide the future of the EU or even if it has a future.

I think the leave campaigns felt they made a significant difference. Even by getting the wording changed on the referendum from "yes" and "no" to "remain" and "leave" was felt to have made an impact. When you're talking about such a small difference everything you can do helps.

[Kursk]

Farron has less influence than Clegg who has less influence than Lily Allen who has less influence than HoneyG .